Newbie looking for a little help

[BP in ME]

Greetings everyone! I'm new to the whole primitive firearms area but two family heirloom rifles have recently been passed to me. Unfortunately, I was given no information about the rifles or how they figure into family history but I'm eager to learn more. Sorry for the image quality, I'm just using the phone.





The first one was easy:1840's percussion Tower gun (possibly used by the South in the Civil War) which is enough for my purposes. The flintlock has been more of a challenge. Here's what I can tell you: it's .75 cal, approx. 46" long and the only writing I can find on the rifle is "J MARTIN--CORK" stamped on the top of the barrel. I looked through a historical directory of American gunmakers but couldn't find a J Martin. I did read somewhere that there was some gunmaking in Cork, OH though. If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd greatly appreciate it.




image uploader

[WESTbury]

Nice fowler. A lot of British influence, particularly the buttstock and lock.

Very definitely not from Ohio.

Side plate photos and proofs on the barrel?

[BP in ME]

Thanks, my eyes lit up when I pulled it from the back of the closet. You mentioned the British influence. Do you think that increases the chances that this is was made in Cork, Ireland?

[WESTbury]

Dependent on the style of stamping on the barrel, that could be an owner, barrel maker or the stocker of the fowler.

[JV Puleo]

That's a nice fowler...I'm certain it's Irish though. Ohio is simply out of the question. It was probably full stocked originally. It looks as if it's been repaired when the forestock broke - something that was pretty common with these long, very light stocks. I'd guess about 1750 but it is sometimes difficult to date provincial arms because older styles continued in use long after they were abandoned in places like London – or in this case, Dublin. J Martin is not listed in Cary (which is an unreliable source at best) but I'll try to remember to look him up in Stockel. My copy is in the office so that will have to be tomorrow.

[BP in ME]

Dependent on the style of stamping on the barrel, that could be an owner, barrel maker or the stocker of the fowler.

I'll post a pic of the stamp tomorrow and look again for any other marks I can find. Thanks

[Niall]

 'Irish Gunmakers' by Richard Garret records a John Martin operating in Cork in 1762 and also that he died in 1781.

Nice Gun


Niall

[JV Puleo]

The same John Martin /Cork is listed in Der Neu Stockel... since that is a compilation of other published sources I'd guess the source is  Irish Gumankers already mentioned. The dates, 1762-1781 may be a guess or taken from directory listings so, while it's reasonable to expect he was active during those years his work may extend before or after. Judging strictly by style, your fowler is much closer to the earlier date.

[James Rogers]

I agree with Mr. Puleo.
I would also be interested in a side plate picture as well as the top return of that buttplate.
Mr. Puleo also makes a good point about dates shown listed in various reference books concerning periods of operation for makers. The dates just reflect documents found by the compliers with those dates and are not an end all for the complete time frame of operation.

[Niall]

The same John Martin /Cork is listed in Der Neu Stockel... since that is a compilation of other published sources I'd guess the source is  Irish Gumankers already mentioned. The dates, 1762-1781 may be a guess or taken from directory listings so, while it's reasonable to expect he was active during those years his work may extend before or after. Judging strictly by style, your fowler is much closer to the earlier date.

Garrett references his source as a list compiled by M.S.Dudley Westropp from documents in the Irish Public Records Office,Church registers,old Irish newspapers,directories etc. and published in 1957.And all before the www.....

I doubt if his work extended after 1781 but we can assume before and after the earlier date which would agree with your approximation

[BP in ME]

Thanks for the detective work everyone. I'll go with John Martin from Cork some in the 1760's or 70's.

I took it out and looked it over more closely and took some pics with the Canon whenever I saw anything of interest. So I'll post those just for fun. Ahead of his name stamp is what looks like a teardrop-shaped fish and possibly a stylized duck ahead of that:




The only other stamp is an illegible tiny square stamp (not even 1/4"):



There might be some numbers engraved on the tang (back to back 6's and 9's) but the more it look at it the more I believe it's a face.



An owner carved their initials near the trigger at some point.



Someone mentioned yesterday that the stock may have been shortened. If so, they did a good job of it. If not shortened then I wonder why the dovetail slot? Could that have been for a sling?





And lastly, engraving on the butt plate.

[Avlrc]

WOW, that Irish Fowler is a wonderful piece.  Congratulations & Thanks for sharing.

[Grayrock Volunteer]

The percussion musket is either a P1842 Musket or P1851 Rifle-Musket. It is missing the Lovell bayonet clasp that would be found under the muzzle.
A measurement of the bore, and the presence of rifling can help determine which model it is. Is there a cartouche on the stock in front of the buttplate tang?

[Tim Crosby]

 Looks more P 1842, no barrel bands, has rr pipes and a place for the sling. If so it should be .70 if I remember right. Don't see a rear sight but these should be one. Should be well marked.

  Tim C.

[Shreckmeister]

The Irish in me loves you Irish Fowler. So glad to see the details. What a story it could tell. Worth some serious research and a trip to Cork. So 😎