First time shooting the new Kibler SMR .45

[OldMtnMan]

Daryl..........It looks like my second link changed to the home page too. I hate it when that happens. So, here's a picture of the patches. Do you recognize the material? It's nothing like the flimsy cotton patches most companies use. Much stiffer and a tighter weave. This isn't lubed but a dry patch.

[duca]

These are the patch cutters I use.  Steel ball bearings and bearing races, or arch punches against HDPE (UHMW) block.
The HDPE - UHMW here, is self healing poly, available at plastic's shops. 10" square x 2' thick pieces cost us $10.00 here
and will last about indefinitely.
The only pre-cut patches I bought, were OxYoke patches from Track which were disappointing to say the least. They measured .003" to .004" thinner than what the package said - useless, imho.

Daryl what are the ball Bearings for???

Anthony

[Daryl]

See the denim patch material between the ball bearing and the race.  Bang with a hammer, cut patch slightly larger than the diameter of the bearing race.
& NO - after 10's of thousands of patches cut with these by many of our members here over the last 40 years, a ball bearing has never shattered,
nor has a bearing race.
I expect the large ball bearings are from a "Cat".

Pete - no I do not recognize the patch material, other than it is likely a "drill".  Poor picture for enlarging. Stiffness usually means the sizing was not washed out
 before the patch was cut.
Many of the patch retailers use ticking of some sort. The Chinese ticking is more open weave than US made ticking. Same with denim.
Denim is so easy to purchase by the yard from yard goods and sewing materials stores. 8ounce is about .018" to .019" and this newer 10 ounce measures .021"
for me with my calipers squeezing the tines on the fabric between forefinger and thumb as hard as I can & reading the dial. You will get incorrect measurements
if you just use the wheel on the side of the calipers. Measured in this manner, Taylor and I get identical readings.

[Hungry Horse]

Hey Big Bubba, For cutting a bunch of patches without using a hammer, or raiding the junkyard, get a hole saw the right size, grind the teeth off, sharpen the edge by chucking it up in your drill motor, and running the outside  cutting edge against a bench grinder. The inside can be sharpened with a stone, or ceramic rod. Then you just fold up the patch material, and cut five or six patches at a time.
 As for your portable shooting bench, cruise the yard sales, and find an old metal adjustable height ironing board. You can usually get one of these for almost nothing.

  Hungry Horse

[OldMtnMan]

Ok, thanks Daryl.

Maybe stiffer was the wrong word to use. Maybe the tighter weave gives that impression. It was flexible but more solid if that makes any sense.

[Big Bubba]

Hey Big Bubba, For cutting a bunch of patches without using a hammer, or raiding the junkyard, get a hole saw the right size, grind the teeth off, sharpen the edge by chucking it up in your drill motor, and running the outside  cutting edge against a bench grinder. The inside can be sharpened with a stone, or ceramic rod. Then you just fold up the patch material, and cut five or six patches at a time.
 As for your portable shooting bench, cruise the yard sales, and find an old metal adjustable height ironing board. You can usually get one of these for almost nothing.

  Hungry Horse

Thanks, for the hole saw idea. I remember seeing that on one of Bob McBride's video but kind forgot about it.

Just found some canvas patch material. Had a pair of new (25 years ago) canvas coveralls someone gave me. Never worn or washed until today. Measure between .021 and .023 depending how hard you push the calipers. Very tight weave, a lot better looking than the other materials i've been using. Can't wait to try it.

[smylee grouch]

Hi Bubba, sometimes you can find those " hole saws " in the pawn shops or 2nd hand stores. I have used them as Hungry Horse does and it works for me but the bearing race and ball would work too if you have or can find one.

[Daryl]

Be careful with hole saws for cutting patches. If the "bit" grabs the cloth, it will attempt to wrap your hand around the spindle, if using a drill press.
It can break fingers quite quickly.  Clamping the material between 2 boards with the hole-saw hole through it is much safer. One of our guys does this.
I find the arch punch works perfectly on the HDPE board.
In the States, Joanne's Fabrics sells material and on line as well and the denim is listed the ounce "weight".
I use 14 ounce denim with both 16 and 15 bore balls in my .69(14bore) - with balls much closer to the bore size, 10 ounce works well.
I measure that at .021" for the last 2 batches I purchased.

[smylee grouch]

Good point Daryl and I should have mentioned that I fold about 4-5 times and clamp on the corner with a vice grip. Works good for me.

[flinchrocket]

This is starting to not make sense, why would you want to drill holes in your patch?

[smylee grouch]

No holes on patch, just holes in material strip.

[Daryl]

Making round patches with a hole saw. The hole saw cuts a round hole, a ring in the material, leaving the material in the middle, solid.
You end up with a bunch of round patches, 1", 1 1/8", 1 1/4", 1 3/8" or 1 1/2". You use the hole saw, that will cut the diameter you need.
The blade is hollow.  Here are a couple pictures of a hole saw that has not been altered for cutting patches.  If it were, it would have a bolt
with the head inside the "bell" and shaft sticking up for the drill or drill press chuck, instead of a drill. The teeth would be ground off and it would be sharpened.

[flinchrocket]

Be careful with hole saws for cutting patches. If the "bit" grabs the cloth, it will attempt to wrap your hand around the spindle, if using a drill press.

How is this possible if you replaced the drill bit with a bolt?

[Big Bubba]

Be careful with hole saws for cutting patches. If the "bit" grabs the cloth, it will attempt to wrap your hand around the spindle, if using a drill press.

How is this possible if you replaced the drill bit with a bolt?

Depends on the arbor you have. If you have a 1/2" arbor you just take out the bit and can still chuck it up in the drill. The picture above shows the bit it self chucks up in the drill, so you can't slide he bit back far enough out of the way and still tighten it up on the arbor and chuck it up in the drill. Hence the need for the bolt that you use just enough to tighten up in the hole saw arbor and chuck up in the drill.

[Daryl]

Taylor made one, as-did Big Ron here in PG. When I mentioned the bit grabbing the cloth, I meant the hole saw
thus the clamping between 2 boards and running the hole saw down through a pre-cut hole. With this method,
you could cut 20 to 50 patches in one "pass".- whatever will fit up inside the saw's body.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The hole saw I used was 1 1/2" OD...that's the size hole it makes in wood.  To use it as a patch cutter, it's the inside diameter that you need to be aware of, it this case 1 5/16".  I keep it razor sharp, fold the material to create 8 patches at a time, and hand hold the cloth bundle on the board, which is clamped to the table of the drill press, run at slow.  After each cut, I turn off the press, and with a pick remove the patches from the inside of the cup.  I save the bundle after cutting the patches, because where the material is folded there are patches for smaller rifles which I cut into strips and cut on the muzzle.

I simply cut off the drill bit that went through the cup, rather than use a bolt.

[flinchrocket]

Thanks Taylor, I don't think I want one of those. I will look at the local CAT dealer and see if he has any ball bearings laying around!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I purchased my ball from a bearing shop in town.  It's 1 1/2" diameter and works in all the races I use for various patch sizes from 1 3/8" down to 3/4".  The balls can be pretty spendy.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

A source for used balls might be a motor winding shop, if you have one in your town.

[Big Bubba]

Did some more smoothing on my crown and got to shoot some today using some canvas (.021-.023 depending how hard you press.) with .440 balls.

Started at 65 grains center left target (5 shots). Not sure what happened on the first shot low. Also, the patches were sloppy wet which I figured out on the center right target was not good, just damp is better.

Dropped to 60 grains center right target (5 SHOTS). The low shot was sloppy wet.

Dropped to 55 grains upper right hand of right target ( 3 shots). I think the reason it was off center is the sun popped out and was shining right on my front sight. Also 5 shots on the upper left corner of the left target was 55 grains. The other two corners on the left target are 50 grains.

Took one shot at each of the first five 2" bullseyes using 50 grains. Horn was empty so I had to stop. Went through a pound of powder in less than a month, glad I ordered 10 lbs.

[Daryl]

Well, you are getting there, keep at it.

[Big Bubba]

This was my best group yet at 25 yards. 5 Shot group, .440 ball, .021 canvas patch and 60 grains 3fg. I will start at 50 yards next time.

I 've once shot conicals in my other muzzleloaders  and it was easier coming up with a good load for it vs patched round ball. It's been fun though.

Thanks for everybody's help!

[Marcruger]

Yes, 50 yards will give you real information.  Smoothbores will even group well at 25 yards.

 At 50 and 100 yards, the target style below works best for my eyes.  Day-glo poster paper back with black construction paper triangle taped on.  I perch the triangle right on top of the front sight.  It gives me a very defined aiming point.  Yes that low one, first out of the barrel that day, was a bummer. 

Best wishes for great shooting.   God Bless,   Marc

[smylee grouch]

Marc brings up a good point, most shooters will shoot tighter groups when they aim at the smallest dot they can see. Thus the old aim small miss small.

[smylee grouch]

Marc, I have a few targets like yours too. Some days things go right and some days they don't.