Author Topic: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil  (Read 599 times)

Offline jteter

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« on: May 03, 2021, 06:37:26 PM »
Friend came into possession of this musket, I think it may be a 1728 Model French Fusil, but I wold like to hear what anyone may know about it as I am no expert.

French Model 1728 (I believe) “French Fusil de chasse”
Measurements:
Barrel Length – 46 7/8”
Lock plate length – 6 ½”
Lock plate Height just behind pan and in front of cock – 1 3/8”
Length of Pull – 13 1/8”
Height of butt – 5 ½”
Width of butt - 2 1/8”
Height of wrist halfway between end of lock panel and start of butt comb – 1 Ύ”
Width of wrist at same point – 1 7/16”
Width of stock in front of lock panels (about an inch away from panels – lock panels gradually taper down to this measurement) – 1 7/16”
Breech of barrel width – 1 3/8”
Markings on lock plate – “A (fleur de lee) A” (second letter may not be an A – unsure) written above “MBG” – located about the middle of the lock plate between cock and pan area
Forgot to put end of muzzle measurement - about 69 caliber I think....



































Offline rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15029
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2021, 07:18:03 PM »
1728 Fusil Ordinaire?  It’s stocked in Euro walnut, right?
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10945
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2021, 07:28:17 PM »
It's way to big to be a De Chase.  Possibly a M1717 or 1728?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 828
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2021, 07:39:42 PM »
The lock has a bridled pan so probably 1728 or later as Mike says. The triggerguard finials look somewhat odd versus most French triggerguards of the period.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline lexington1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2021, 07:42:36 PM »
Nice find! 1728 musket. I'm pretty sure it's a regular musket, not a fusil. These are very difficult to find. Any history of where it came from, etc?

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 828
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2021, 08:38:40 PM »
Great markings on the lock. Maubeuge I believe.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline jteter

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2021, 08:56:12 PM »
Rich Pearce - I don't know what the wood is, but it def is not American Maple, wood appears a reddish brown color where you can see it under the patina.

Lexington1 - A Member of our local black powder club got it from an 85 year old woman in Americus GA and he gave it to my buddy. So don't know much beyond that unfortunately. Will see what original member recalls from obtaining the gun when we can.

Westbury - thanks for the possible maker info, will look into that soon.

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5137
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2021, 09:42:28 PM »
Hi,
I believe it is a late production model 1728 French infantry musket that is sometimes referred to as the model 1746.  The barrel is slightly different from the earlier 1728s and the rear barrel band is narrower.  Is there any engraving on the barrel tang?  I am looking for something like "M 1746" in script letters.  The musket was made in the Maubeuge  arsenal between 1746 and 1750.  The lock looks like one from the later model 1754 because it has a pan bridle.  The 1728 also had a bridle shaped differently than yours but it was removed for at least the initial 1746s.  It is possible they upgraded the locks during the later years of production.  I believe these guns were a emergency war production because the French were desperate for arms with was breaking out in Europe in the 1740s. An interesting fact about the French models 1728-1754 is they were designed by the great gunsmith to the king, Reynier also known as Le Hollandais.  Anyone familiar with fine French guns from the early 18th century should recognize that name. He is the man who introduced the barrel bands method of attachment to French military guns.

dave
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 10:10:06 PM by smart dog »
"Flick Lives!"

Offline jteter

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2021, 01:28:16 AM »
Smart Dog - thank you much, I will read up on all of that, greatly appreciated.

Offline lexington1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2021, 04:37:23 AM »
Smart Dog - I read your post and you brought up something I had never paid attention to, namely that that the bridal had been eliminated on the the later 1728 models (or 1746 Models). Do you think they did this just to boost lock production? I had always thought that once bridals were accepted by the major powers that they would never go back. Thanks for pointing this out. I learn something new every day!

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5137
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2021, 01:26:39 PM »
Hi Lexington1,
I think it might be war production and cutting costs.  They made about 200,000 model 1746s so they were in mass production for sure. 

dave
"Flick Lives!"

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 828
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2021, 05:11:54 PM »
Hi Lexington1,
I think it might be war production and cutting costs.  They made about 200,000 model 1746s so they were in mass production for sure. 
dave
Dave & Lexington,

You guys seem to have a pretty good grasp on this musket. In your opinion, would the French arms authorities utilized component suppliers that they would have not purchased from in normal circumstances? My question is relative to the somewhat "non-standard" features of the triggerguard.

I'm embarrassed to say that I am not well versed on French arms earlier than the M1766 series.

Kent
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline lexington1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2021, 07:44:54 PM »
Westbury - I am not really up on early French muskets. The only reason I know anything about the 1728's is that I bought one several years back and studied up on it then. I also have a couple 1766's. That's pretty much the extent of what I know. Dave knows of bunch more than I!

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10945
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2021, 07:56:31 PM »
I know that Liege was contacted to make muskets for the French when demand exceed supply.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline mr. no gold

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2189
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2021, 08:50:40 PM »
Jt, can you tell about the circumstances of where, how, and when this gun was found? It gives great meaning to the term 'as found' and there are lot of us that like to see a gun such as this. It appears that it can be conserved and restored to some degree and be a great collectible piece. Thank you for posting the photos here. Much appreciated.
Dick

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5137
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2021, 09:35:59 PM »
Hi Lexington1,
I think it might be war production and cutting costs.  They made about 200,000 model 1746s so they were in mass production for sure. 
dave
Dave & Lexington,

You guys seem to have a pretty good grasp on this musket. In your opinion, would the French arms authorities utilized component suppliers that they would have not purchased from in normal circumstances? My question is relative to the somewhat "non-standard" features of the triggerguard. 

I'm embarrassed to say that I am not well versed on French arms earlier than the M1766 series.

Kent
Hi Westbury,
The trigger guard is one reason I believe it is a model 1746 not earlier production 1728.  They changed the guard to a much thinner teardrop compared with the 1728. Kent, the French models 1717-1754 can considered a kind of family of models with the later ones upgrades of the earlier models.  The French created a whole new series with the Model 1763. Almost everything changed.

Mike, the "MBG" on the lock indicates the royal arsenal at Maubeuge.  However, it is pretty close to Liege, Mike.

dave
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 09:45:56 PM by smart dog »
"Flick Lives!"

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 828
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 10:50:10 PM »
Dave --Thanks for the info.

Kent
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline jteter

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Help Identify - Possible 1728 French Fusil
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2021, 01:50:33 AM »
Mr. No gold - it was found in a 87 year old lady's attic in Americus GA. I will try get more details when I get a chance to speak with the guy that originally got from her.