Author Topic: Help in id on flintlock 1722 engraved on butt "Nicolas" (Read 4052 times)

Mdlock · « **Reply #1 on:** May 05, 2021, 09:37:10 PM »

at least tell me its nice.. getting worried.

Mdlock · « **Reply #2 on:** May 05, 2021, 09:46:44 PM »

Mdlock · « **Reply #3 on:** May 05, 2021, 10:07:45 PM »

mr. no gold · « **Reply #4 on:** May 05, 2021, 10:52:36 PM »

That is a NICE gun and a pretty early one at that. European and just guessing French, but don't really know. Good ones like this are hard to find. Wish I could help more on maker, origin and age, but I can't make out too many details on this I-$#@* computer, I have. Thank you for bringing it here to be seen and admired.
Dick

Curtis · « **Reply #5 on:** May 06, 2021, 07:53:43 AM »

Yes, VERY nice gun!

Curtis

smart dog · « **Reply #6 on:** May 06, 2021, 03:16:28 PM »

Hi,
I would ignore the 1722. I think that may be a red herring. I think the marks on the barrel may be English from the 1660s-1670s. I cannot really tell but at that time they were not framed within a cartouche like later. The rest of the gun sure looks European and the first name of Nicolas points in that direction. It is an enigma.

dave

WESTbury · « **Reply #7 on:** May 06, 2021, 05:14:56 PM »

To Dave's point, the barrel proofs resemble #1 on the attached sheet.

Mdlock · « **Reply #8 on:** May 06, 2021, 05:59:06 PM »

This news is somewhat awesome.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #9 on:** May 06, 2021, 07:49:56 PM »

I'd look to French, Belgian or Dutch. The carving doesn't look like anything I have ever seen on an English gun. Possibly an immigrant European gunmaker freshly moved to London?....just a possibility. I'd date it 1690-1700. The forestock is a replacement from the rear pipe forward.

ed lundquist · « **Reply #10 on:** May 06, 2021, 08:40:00 PM »

Like that groove detail on the barrel, very nice!

smart dog · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2021, 03:49:20 AM »

Hi,
Let me clarify something. I base my comments concerning the barrel marks on John Cooper's excellent book "For Commonwealth and Crown: English Gunmakers of the 17th Century". Apparently, the proof masters of the guild during the 1650s-1670s were given to old and venerable members of the guild as a kind of pre-retirement award of service. As such some of those old members could not strike the barrel marks very strongly. As a result, they were often superficially struck and the design eliminated the deep cartouche.

dave

WESTbury · « **Reply #12 on:** May 07, 2021, 04:50:56 AM »

I Photoshopped the photo of the barrel proofs. To me, they both look like a Crown over a V.

Also, looks like there may be a brazed repair to the top of the frizzen pan cover.

Mdlock · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2021, 07:25:20 PM »

so I'm still confused. aren't there list of makers marks since it was proofed. the crown obviously has the bump on top not present in proof mark #1. So im confused on date because I don't see the outside circle or oblong shape. I am trying to get an estimate for insurance. Seems like it could be a valuable pistol.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #14 on:** May 08, 2021, 08:01:19 PM »

Quote from: Mdlock on May 08, 2021, 07:25:20 PM

so I'm still confused. aren't there list of makers marks since it was proofed. the crown obviously has the bump on top not present in proof mark #1. So im confused on date because I don't see the outside circle or oblong shape. I am trying to get an estimate for insurance. Seems like it could be a valuable pistol.

I'm not convinced the proof marks or the pistol is even English, the bizarre carving certainly isn't. As far as value goes this pistol has some problems. The forestock and rear ramrod pipe are gone and there appears to be some areas of filler here and there. Those issues really hurt any value.

T*O*F · « **Reply #15 on:** May 08, 2021, 09:48:30 PM »

I think it's Italian. The name and other writing appear to be in Latin.

James Rogers · « **Reply #16 on:** May 08, 2021, 10:46:35 PM »

I'd love to see a good picture of the whole barrel but from what I see I think the barrel is about 1665-70 based on the early London proof marks and the rounded grooves.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2021, 08:13:51 AM »

James,
The problem with it being British, is that there is a crowned view mark, but no corresponding proof mark. Both should be present.

Pictures of more than close-ups would help, although I do see an overall photo.
Lock style looks French to me, but early English and Italian are also in the running.
A good square-on close-up of the full lock would help.
Fluted barrels were often Italian, but not always.

All best,
R.

WESTbury · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2021, 02:21:59 PM »

Nicolas--- To Puka's point, the more pictures, the better, but they should show more than just close-ups of areas of your great looking pistol. Other wise, we are like the old allegory shown below.

Mdlock · « **Reply #19 on:** May 10, 2021, 03:21:18 AM »

I will get some good pictures later on this evening. I love a good mystery but like to hear about it first..

James Rogers · « **Reply #20 on:** May 10, 2021, 03:41:53 AM »

Yes, #1 was used beginning 1637, #2 marks were from1672 and #3 1702

Quote from: WESTbury on May 06, 2021, 05:14:56 PM

To Dave's point, the barrel proofs resemble #1 on the attached sheet.

Mdlock · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2021, 07:35:09 PM »

WESTbury · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2021, 09:57:50 PM »

Excellent photos MDLOCK, for our ALR pistol experts to work from. A nice looking pistol. The sideplate is great.

Mdlock · « **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2021, 03:31:07 AM »

i'm getting a feeling im not gonna find out who and where this was made..

James Rogers · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2021, 03:54:01 AM »

With the gun in hand, can you verify absolutely that the two stampings in the breech are identical ? Both are crown over V view marks?

News:

Author Topic: Help in id on flintlock 1722 engraved on butt "Nicolas" (Read 4052 times)

Mdlock

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