Rondy and shoot attendance!

[Roger Fisher]

Lets rehash this again...

Shot for 3 days at 2 different rondy/shoots here in Penna. with the weather forecast to be beautiful for several days ahead of time over the Labor day weekend.  Was disapointed to note that the shooters and campers were down by at least 30% - go figure.  Also noticed again that many folks wander to the shooting area - shoot a couple relays then drift back to camp to 'flop'!  Are they lazy, old or what??

Have you folks noticed the attendance at shoots dropping off?  And why??

[alex e.]

I have about quit going to them,I was at Pittsfield this last  Mem. day & I was not impressed,Compared to 20 + years ago when you were lucky to find a place to camp come  Fri. evening.
Attendance was low weather was nice,authenticity almost gone,between all the painters pants & kids in Crocs,and even the host of the shoot half a$$ed dressed up somewhere between  70's hippie & farbed out mountain man........
Some people still do a nice impression, no matter what era they portray,
I understand many come to shoot & i respect that ,but if you want to dress & camp like something else,do it in the modern section

Brookville still has a good turnout of shooters & campers they have remained consistant over the years.

I was at  Samples Border Rangers rifle Frolic  last spring.I know & like the individual  who puts on & hosts it,But I will not return, between the drunks & the non period music  all  night, that was enough for me.

 I do one or two private events a year now, where  like minded individuals are in attendance.And one of them has started to become "contaminated" I'll probably have to be the rectum to say something this year,but i really don't care.
I enjoy reenacting immensely ,but I DO miss live fire.
I got into m/l & shooting in my teens, got away from it in my 20's & 30's & came back in  my 40's with a greater appreciation in the historic end of it. so much happend where I have lived in Pa. Then it morphed into other aspects,gun building   The French culture interested me,from there I took a great interest in the guns of New France,Ive met many interesting people who i call friends now & have shared more than I read in any book,such as people on this site.
You get out what you put in i guess, nothing= nothing
But i digress...
  And yes,old ,lazy people need sleep,so do the young ones also,
not too many younger fellows go anymore  IMO, But its like in a lot of sports.
  Just some of my thoughts..........
Alex.

[jim m]

attendance at our monthly shoots is good, but the rondys have been dissmal

[Candle Snuffer]

I think it's the same ol' story that's been going on for years now.  Not a lot of new blood coming in to join in these events and carry on the tradition.

At our annual doings I haven't notice a decrease in participants in our matches, we usually have a pretty good turn out for the size of camp's we're getting these days.  There was a time when we would get upwards of 60+ camps, now we're lucky to get a little over 30 each year for the last 5 years or so, but most are pretty good about taking part in the matches.

Guess it's just the times we live in.

[Dphariss]

When I started going to "The Flintlock and Buckskin Rendezvous" it was about 20 guys showing up at Friendship to camp for a weekend, shoot and throw knives and hawks up at about 38 57' 43.85" N 85 08' 59 93"W if you have "Google Earth". Note the size of the area.  We did not do costume competition or pretend we were someone else, "personas" or carry authentic letters of introduction etc, etc.  Nobody really cared so long as some attempt was made to dress right and get better the next time. We had to make just about everything ourselves, no traders with tents full of garments. By modern standards the clothing was generally pretty grim.
Soon after I got drafted and by the time I got back from the Army it had ballooned to huge camps.
It then increasingly turned into a costume party.
Once people start looking at your outfit with a magnifying glass the fun goes out of it.
Then we have people (the shooters anyway) switching to BPCR especially in the west since the BPCR "crowd" actually have rifle matches. Then we have CAS. Again the main idea is the shooting. Its the fastest growing shooting sport in the world. They dress "Hollywood" and blowup too many guns  for my taste but there sure are a lot of them and they have a ball. So long as you dress fairly old time western you are in if you have a pair of six shooters, lever gun and a shotgun you are set. In some matches you can use 1911 Colts. But its better that setting around for a week admiring other peoples clothing.

I frequent another web site inhabited by some "thread counters". I have had some online "discussions" with them concerning their opinions of 18th century dress and have had some e-mails from people who won't even go to "events" the thread counters attend because they are tired of people standing around admiring each other's clothing and snickering at those who do not meet their standards.
 
A friend tells me the Civil War sites are even worse.

So those who are wondering about why people have lost interest perhaps they should do some research and ask them why they quit showing up. They probably migrated to some other historical interest of perhaps got fed up and quit all together.

Dan

[La Longue Carabine]

This is a very interesting topic you guy's have started here and i would love to hear more. I haven't attended any Rondezvous as of yet, although i've been trying over this past year to get all the period correct gear i can get my hands on, but it ain't easy, or cheap... I fully understand what the fella's are saying thats been doing the reenactment thing for years and years. These Rendezvous are like clubs, in that they have rules and regulations that have been set down for a good many years. To me and from what i've read, one of the most basic rules is, "Period Correct Dress", correct?? That basically means, what it means....dress in that period....does it mean that a first time attender, that may have missed being correct by a button or two should be looked down on or scorned in anyway, $#*! no it shouldn't be that way, or your attendence is going to plummet. You've got to give the new folks a chance to get their $#@* together. I would have loved to attended a Rendezvous the second i bought my long rifle and nothing else, but i knew that would not have been proper. Nobody likes to be looked down on or made to feel inadequate because he or she is not dressed as well as someone thats been involved in Rendezvous for a lot of years. So i must agree with what some of the others have said, as to there beliefs as to why Rendezvous attendence has dropped. If i attended one and was ridiculed for not being perfectly dressed, then i for @!*% sure would not return. However, if someone were to politely make a few suggestions as to how i could improve my dress, behavior, or shooting, or whatever, then i would feel like i was apart of a group that was interested in teaching a greenhorne, how to be better the next time. In fact while i'am typing this, i had an idea. I don't know if this is already in place or not, but i don't think it is, or we wouldn't be talking about this subject. This is just a crude example of the idea, so bare with me....

My idea is....that the Rendezvous should be more like clubs, in that there should be a registration booth and that period correct experts should attend to that booth. Now when folks start showing up, have them go to the booth to register and the experts look them over and decide what group/class they should be in. What group/class you say.....simple, which ever way that persons dress or gear is, for example if they're 35% correct in dress and gear, place them in, "The Green Horne" class, 50% correct place them in, "Pilgrim" class, and so on and so forth.... I'am still to green to know all the correct terminology, but you get the idea. Now, once that person has been placed in a class, then give him some kind of ID or way to lable which class he or she is in, so that others can see and perhaps not be so judgemental or harsh toward that person for the gear they have or how they're dressed. Then advise that person that they are expected to be in a higher class/group, on there next Redezvous visit, until they reach a point of being say 85 to 90% period correct. Then don't try to force them into 100%, but let them know it would be appreciated if they could be 100%.....

In MHO.... i believe that would make newer people feel like they are growing into a tradition that hasn't truely exsisted in two or three hundered years. I sincerely believe that if this or something like this was done, then attendence would start to increase once the word got out..... Again, my humble opinion...

Anyway, its just a thought and an opinion. But please lets keep hearing about ya'lls experiences, good or bad, at these Rendezvous.

Thank you,
Danny...

[BrownBear]

I'm in kind of a funny spot, living on an island a looooong ways and an expensive plane ticket from the nearest rondy.  There's a group of us that get together and shoot and hunt informally without much thought given to dress and no fouls for non-PC gear or dress.  We're all evolving toward PC gear out of curiosity and interest, but if one of our group or a newcomer shows up with an inline, more power to him.  We'll win him over sooner or later.   

The funny or weird part comes in when I dig into the past.   When I moved here almost 40 years ago there was a real active muzzleloading bunch and a couple of rondys a year.  I wasn't much inclined then, but I know a bunch of the folks that were.  Talking to them, they say the group started more or less like us- just folks sharing a common interest in shooting old guns.  But once they organized with all sorts of rules, all $#*! broke out.  Shooting fell down to about 10% of the time and effort while the rest went into PC clothes, camps and judging. 

They had a good 5 year run of formal rondys rather than just friends camping together, each one more correct than the last.  Until finally the look and judging was serious and not fun for anyone but the thread counters who felt they were better than anyone else and looked for any excuse to prove it.  The term I hear all the time from those early timers is "fashion show."  They'd turned their interest in shooting into a fashion show with barely any shooting.

Today some of those guys still shoot muzzleloaders, but a bunch of them won't even do that.  Even those that do still shoot, we can't get them to come shoot with us.  They just want no part of any group activity, even all these years later. 

The rest of us have learned a little from that, as you can see from our regard toward even "correct" muzzleloaders.  We've talked wistfully about maybe going on a camping hunt together, but there's no talk of PC camping.  Goretex and air matresses all the way.  PC clothing is a curiosity, but there's no bonus points for wearing it.  We want to keep it to a bunch of guys who share an interest in shooting, with lots of room for anyone to wear what he wants and shoot what suits him.

The down side is the loss of the "historical" aspect.  Though we read about it enthusiastically, none of us are inclined to recreate it.  Just too much play acting and dress up distracting from our shooting interests.  Too bad there's not room for both types of people.  I understand the motives of folks that really do want to relive the old ways down to the last thread.  But does that mean we all have to be subservient to their interests?

Folks like me just don't care to subject ourselves to the thread counting and arguments, interested as we might be in history and respectful of those that do the research.  Heck, in a heartbeat I'd buy and watch a video of those events.  But my video player has a mute button. 

Carry on with the rondys and us sideliners look forward to what you turn up.  But nah.  Aint going to go there and listen to all the catterwalling.  We're in this for the shooting.

[rich pierce]

In other "sports" the crowd turns over a lot, with 75% of participants being new every 5-10 years.  may not be so with muzzleloaders, but you might ask "How would I feel here if I was a newbie?"

If a newbie goes to a shoot and does not know anything, even range rules or what types of targets and matches there are, etc, and nobody lends a hand, it might be the last time he tries that.  Best bet is to bring in new folks and personally introduce them to the sport.  Be a buddy to a new guy.  Same with rondy stuff- lend a guy some stuff, take him with you, see it with fresh eyes.  You'll both get something out of it.  Too often we assume folks know what is going on and how to do stuff.  Being confused and anxious is not fun for people.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here in British Columbia we have one big rendezvous each year.  It takes place at the Heffley Creek Gun Club property near Kamloops BC.  This year was the 20th anniversary of this wonderful event.  Unfortunately, there have been a lot of forest fires here, and many folks elected not to attend to avoid the danger or stress.  In fact, during the early morning hours of the first day, Search and Rescue came through camp and awakened everyone with the advice that we were on "evacuation alert".  At daybreak, people pulled out in droves - I'd suggest 25% left.  A few days later there was a lightning strike clearly visible from camp about 1 1/2 kms to the north.  The Forest Service doused it in about 12 hours, but there was more tension and more people puled up stakes and fled.  So, yup, our attendance was down this year.  We were not allowed open campfires or stoves this year, and that was difficult.
Now regarding the philosophy of this annual affair.  It's come one - come all!!  We could care less whether you are a page out of history or a newbie with a suede leather vest.  We have two camps - primitive, and modern, and in primitive, we make an effort to appear PC.  We cover our coolers with blankets, put canvas shrouds around our propane stoves, and drink from anything other than the modern vessel it came in.  We insist that if you want to live there for the ten days, you make an effort to dress appropriately, but the dog soldiers draw the line at crocs, sandles, and shorts.  A calico shirt and Tandy mocs will pass muster.  We want to encourage people:  not the converse.  You will see all sorts of outfits on men women and kids, and everyone has a good time without criticism.  What you chose for yourself and your family is completely up to you.
Shooting...there are shooting events every day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon.  The shooting line will have between 60 and 120 people on it, and the competition is good.  Many shooters are good enough to ace a trail, relying on their tie breaker card to get them into the winners' circle.  This does not discourage people who never get there.  We all shoot and do it for the fun and camaraderie.  I do not know how many camps we ended up with this year, but those who chose to stay had a lot of fun.  Usually, we get around 125 camps.
I do not see this particular event diminishing in my lifetime.

[Acer Saccharum]

At my Saratoga club Fall shoot this year, I saw plenty of folks return who had not come last year. That was encouraging. I also saw a handful of young shooters engaged, and the introduction of new young blood is going to be the key to continuing the sport/hobby. There is a pretty good proportion of female shooters, and some of those are teenage girls who can shoot circles around me.

I am optimistic about our future, but it won't be a sure thing without advertising and work.

[Daryl]

We are lucky in that many of the young folk who've been dragged to Rendezvous at Hefley since they were babies, are still attending through their teen years.  Two of the dog soldiers this year were youngsters and did a good job of it. The junior program seems to have more and more kids every year- it's great to see our future becoming involved.
Attendence at Hefley was good this year, until the fires scared a lot away - mostly the campers, 5th wheelers and motorhomes, the camps that break in minutes - interesting.

Tom - we expect you at Rendezvous 2010 (Hefley) next year, along with Jesse, of course.

[ironwolf]

  The Alafia was down some in total attendance this past Jan. but the registered shooters was about the same.  We get a lot of youngsters that grew up in it also, have even had several 'vous weddings. I agree that the youth are the future. 
  As far as new shooters are concerned, we get pretty serious about tutoring newbies.  If not for that I would have quit myself after the first outing. 
   
   KW

[Candle Snuffer]

I think with many of the locations and Rendezvous offered out west here where I live, attendance has a lot to do with the location and length of travel involved, as well as some (or many) wanting to go try out and experience different Rendezvous.

I've seen our club's number of camps fluctuate from 30 to 78 camps over the last 15 years, so you never really know for sure which way the numbers will go?  A lot may be dependant on economic reasoning, health, finance, or folks/families just wanting to try something different then the same routine each vacation year.

I do feel that for many, the 'camp' has become their sanctuary where they may not feel much like taking part in the shooting and other events, but rather relax and visit with old friends.  This doesn't mean they don't support the events, they do.  They've paid their camp fees which include the events as well, (at least at our doings), and just have a different outlook at the enjoyment they're getting out of attending Rendezvous camp these days.  

[Roger Fisher]

My take on this is that various and many things have combined to cause this drop off in attendance at our rondys and shoots...

We see that the older shooters have slowly quit the game for many reasons incl death, illness, etc and are not being replaced by the younger folks.  The younger folks really have little respect (generally in my own view only) for history and all the connections that our game has to do with history.  They have to struggle to 'get away' from all the honey do chores family duties jobs kids to soccer etc etc the list is a long one, so getting in to the ML sport is low down on the list of things they get in to....

The economy!

Some rondy/shoots have gone to the idea of the first target in each match is 'free' and the cost of the first woodswalk the same.  This gets more shooters on the shooting line at least for a while.

The in lines are killing us. The folks that buy rifles for hunting 'only' go for them since they are 'cheap firearms.  Try them out have problems with them then throw them back in the to closet and go 'back' to the 06!  When they see the cost of a well built long rifle they wish for one but often don't spend the $.

Many clubs are making the paper targets too difficult, and this turns off many shooters.  I say let them fight over X's.

I'm getting too long here so I'll add only this:  A lot of shooters see the scores piled up by some of the hard core boys and girls that have spent the time and effort in becoming good shots and feel "$#*! I don't have a chance against those guys" and kinda give up.     Lewis class scoring and marksman matches help in this.

More??

[Daryl]

I think shooting various and different disciplines might help.  For instance, at Rendezvous 2010 (next year's Hefley) I'll be putting on a chunk shoot.  Other than the Alberta bullseye offhand match, it will be the only absolute 'accuracy' discipline we have yet.  The suggestion was well received and I was told to expect 100 entrants. - Prizes from Juniors, through Womens and men's rifles as well as I'm thinking on a 25 yard smoothbore chunk for combined women and men, a total of 12 prizes through 3 placings each.

Come on guys'n gals from ALR in the States - come on up, the rendezvous is a blast.  Plan well in advance & just come.

[Candle Snuffer]

I try to keep our WRB members interested with fairly easy monthly targets for our scheduled novelty shoots, otherwise we shoot the standard NMLRA targets.

Aside from myself and Potter, none of our members bother to ever practice.  They then show up at the monthly match and wonder why they can't hit the black consistantly on these generous scaled down Creedmoor targets, with the (round black bull target scoring - Bullseye 5, Center 4, Inner 3, Outer 2) & (square bullseye target scoring - Bullseye 4, Inner 3, Outer 2)...  These are printed on 8.5 x 11 inch paper, 5 shots per target - targets used at 25 & 50 yards.  First 2 shots must be taken Offhand, and the final 3 shots of each target can be shot from Offhand, Prone, Setting, or Kneeling - your choice.  The bullseyes are three inch.



I only posted these target to show that our club has been taking steps in this direction that Roger alluded to. " Many clubs are making the paper targets too difficult, and this turns off many shooters.  I say let them fight over X's."

Well, believe it or not, aside from Jim and myself, the competitors still can't achieve decent scores to hold their interest as they simply don't practice and have no intention of ever taking their shooting to the next level as Jim & I do, and the many here at ALR that do as well.

If it were up to me at this point, 'alone',,, I would only shoot the NMLRA targets at their prescribed distances.  I for one am getting a little tired of trying to cater to the whims of those who take no pride in trying to achieve decent marksmanship.

I guess for many it is easier to just set around camp and do nothing rather then get involved with the activities?

 

[Canute Rex]

I recently attended the "Northern New England Flintlock Frolic" in Wells, VT. I don't think I'm going to next year's in Maine.

Some of it was quite interesting, with odd but possible targets, flint and steel fire starting, molding a bullet and shooting it, knife and tomahawk throwing, and the like. I even managed to cut a playing card on edge at 25 feet. A good portion of dumb luck on that, but pleasant.

The problem was that there were two classes of participants - those who had been there before, and those who were new. There were a number of rules that were never written down or told to us, so there was no real chance for a newbie to compete, no matter how good a shot. For instance, I had my shooting bag rooted through by a judge who penalized me for having my patches in a baggie. I protested that nobody had told me I was going to be scored on internal pouch authenticity and was told, "Well, you won't do that next time, will you?" I was told to sink my tomahawk in a stump, put a charcoal briquette on it and shoot it off. If I had known I would have stuck a piece of scrap wood in my hawk head, but I wasn't going to risk my newly finished handle, so I lost points there. And so it went, with the judge having great fun laughing at us.

My friend who had been there a couple of years before said it had been like that then, with semi-secret rules that only the insiders knew. There were also a lot of really bizarre targets, like horizontal popsicle sticks at 10 feet. Real "How the $#*! do I pick an aimpoint on this?" targets. I suppose if you had shot at them before (insiders) you would know.

It's just another manifestation of the old-timers vs newbies thing. At least they weren't absurd about thread counting.

Still, I paid an entry fee to compete. I expected a level playing field, some basic fairness, and it wasn't there.

I have enjoyed the winter primitive biathlons. Those are running on (wooden) snowshoes and shooting at metal gongs along the trail. All the rules are available beforehand, and period dress is encouraged, but not required. They are growing. There were 200+ participants last winter at the original one, in Jeffersonville Vermont.

[Candle Snuffer]

I have to admit that the charcoal on the hawk thing and shooting it off is a new one that I've not heard of before, Canute.

The buckskinners out my way like to play a game called "handles" with their hawks.  The purpose is to try and break someone's hawk handle.  I've been doing this Rondy thing for some time and I feel I've had sense enough to not be an idiot and put my hawk in the block to have someone throw at it and possibly break the handle.

What others do is up to them, but I've never seen any humor or sport in playing "handles"...

Personally I don't think I'd do that charcoal/hawk thing either.

Now I have been on woods-walks where you had to have your shooter's bag inspected for content once you're out on the trail.  However, word gets out around camp and if you're unfortunate to be one of the first one's on the trail (I never am), word spreads and everyone is prepared.  Personally I think that is a waste of time as well, inspecting someones shooting bag to penelize them, all the while the one being inspected has a filtered cigarette hanging out his mouth and just put his Bic Lighter in his pocket.  Never understood that reasoning to not levy a penelty there?

I expect there are some bizarre ideas that come up at lots of events that really add nothing to keeping new and old participants involved, especially when it could end up costing you money should you shoot your hawk handle or allow someone to throw their hawk at yours just to see if they can break your handle.

I like Rendezvous, but I leave the idiotic stuff to those that don't have any better sense.

[Roger Fisher]

I ran in to that charcoal on hawk handle thingee at a N/Eastern a few years ago.

We went out on the walk in pairs and your partner had to stick his hawk in a stump and I had to crawl/run/stagger up the @!*% bank and put a briquette on his hawk handle and I had to shoot the charcoal off 'his' hawk handle.  Actually that didn't bother me a bit   Worse part was crawling up that embankment.

I don't recall if I hit the charcoal or not.  I do recall that we both did well on that walk.  We came to a station where 2 very pretty gals offered us 'candy'. I refused it and told them I didn't want to be poisoned by hostiles> Turned out I should have accepted........Funny thing I get a kick out of that kind of weird woodswalks; but different strokes for different folks I guess

[La Longue Carabine]

I recently attended the "Northern New England Flintlock Frolic" in Wells, VT. I don't think I'm going to next year's in Maine.

Some of it was quite interesting, with odd but possible targets, flint and steel fire starting, molding a bullet and shooting it, knife and tomahawk throwing, and the like. I even managed to cut a playing card on edge at 25 feet. A good portion of dumb luck on that, but pleasant.

The problem was that there were two classes of participants - those who had been there before, and those who were new. There were a number of rules that were never written down or told to us, so there was no real chance for a newbie to compete, no matter how good a shot. For instance, I had my shooting bag rooted through by a judge who penalized me for having my patches in a baggie. I protested that nobody had told me I was going to be scored on internal pouch authenticity and was told, "Well, you won't do that next time, will you?" I was told to sink my tomahawk in a stump, put a charcoal briquette on it and shoot it off. If I had known I would have stuck a piece of scrap wood in my hawk head, but I wasn't going to risk my newly finished handle, so I lost points there. And so it went, with the judge having great fun laughing at us.

My friend who had been there a couple of years before said it had been like that then, with semi-secret rules that only the insiders knew. There were also a lot of really bizarre targets, like horizontal popsicle sticks at 10 feet. Real "How the $#*! do I pick an aimpoint on this?" targets. I suppose if you had shot at them before (insiders) you would know.

It's just another manifestation of the old-timers vs newbies thing. At least they weren't absurd about thread counting.

Still, I paid an entry fee to compete. I expected a level playing field, some basic fairness, and it wasn't there.

I have enjoyed the winter primitive biathlons. Those are running on (wooden) snowshoes and shooting at metal gongs along the trail. All the rules are available beforehand, and period dress is encouraged, but not required. They are growing. There were 200+ participants last winter at the original one, in Jeffersonville Vermont.

Oh my Lord... as i stated earlier. i've never been to a rondy yet, but now i'am not too sure i want to. I don't think theirs much out there that can make a person feel more foolish, than to be called down on for a rule violation when you were not made aware of the rule in the first place... Then to have the fella say, "I guess you won't be making that mistake again",... Man that's just wrong and uncalled for right there. Is it like that at most all the rondy's?? If so, i may have me one heck of an 18th century yard sale and forget about all this. I'am no Einstein, but i don't like being made to look like a fool either... Please tell me their not all like that!!

[t.caster]

Some people get off on these kind of "challenges", and making fun of hapless newbies. They forget from wence they came! Who needs it!

No, not all rondies are like that! Just the BIG ONES!

No need to sell all yer plunder.....er, a....what do you have?

[Roger Fisher]

No, no they are not all like that!!!

Since the larger rondys usually have representatives (volunteers) from other clubs running the w walks they try to come up with something different every time.  Often these volunteers assume (wrongly) that the entrants are all experienced in these types of things and are ready for near anything! Including some weird things i.e. peeling a potato and getting points for the longest 'peel'!  Although I agree that each entrant should be read the rules and what to be prepared for, at least generally!  Sometimes we have to 'go with the flow!!

I say try it you may like the challenge/challenges!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There's no weird stuff at Heffley Creek.  Everyone is on the same playing field.  The only two things that';ll get you into the winner's circle are skill and luck.  Skill works best.
A few years ago, at one of the primitive archery events that I sponsored at Heffley, i gave points for costume, and tackle, and deducted points for things like wrist watches, and plastic nocks.  It nearly started a war.  I don't do that anymore, only encouraging folks to make an effort to have the correct tackle.  I draw the line at primitve only bows, though.
Our shooting competitions don't have hidden rules.  Everyone takes part, and has a great time, win or lose.

[caliber45]

Gents/ladies -- I can't resist nosing into things that don't concern me, so here goes: I don't attend/participate in "rondys," competitions, clubs, etc. It ain't that I'm anti-social . . . well, OK, maybe I AM anti-social. I don't like loud music (or ANY music) when I'm shooting. I don't like "range-masters" telling me when I can/can't shoot. I don't like anybody telling me how to dress. I don't like anybody giggling about my rifle, clothing, attitude, etc. I like to shoot, period. At my own pace, and at my own range. I like to check targets (binoculars or eyeballing) when I want to check targets. I don't like to be told, OK, you're shooting this caliber/type firearm, so you HAVE to shoot at this range. In other words, I'm CRANKY. Heck, at 67, I'm entitled to be CRANKY. And I take advantage of that. I don't like "organized" events such as "rondys," since people who like to organize also love to dictate rules. Thank heavens (or whatever dieties to which one decides to offer thanks . . .) there is still open country here in Arizona, despite concerted efforts to eliminate that. We go to the desert (most times in violation of State Trust Land laws . . .) with friends, kids, grandkids (and soon, if I live long enough, four-and-more-coming  great-grandkids . . .), set up targets, advise participants of the safety rules, keep an eye on the youngsters, and shoot away. Lotsa fun. Here in Arizona, sadly, there has been an influx of "foreigner" residents who are of the opinion that their opinions should supercede any opinions of those of us long-timers. They form "neighborhood associations" that try to dictate to us what we can/can't grow in our "lawns," what we can/can't put atop our homes, where we can/can't park our vehicles, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam. I don't like them, and I don't like folks who like to tell me how/when/where/etc. to shoot. Let's hope the open desert lasts as long as I do. I've got my fingers (including my trigger finger) crossed. I resent the $#*! out of folks who think they know more about what's good for me than what I think is good for me. Thanks for letting me vent . . . -- paulallen, Tucson

[J.D.]

Well, I don't know where y'all attend these off the wall events. I have only encountered one or two events like that in this area, in nearly 30 years of rendezvousing and reenacting.

The only events I have attended with any rules about anyone's camp and clothing are the juried events that require preregistration. Otherwise,  rodys, in this area, are pretty lax on who and what is allowed. Most even allow street clothes, with an additional coupla bucks at registration.

There are a coupla survival walks, hosted in the area, with no written rules. Even the experienced competitors don't know what they will encounter on the course.  Nor do they tip off the competition as to what they will face, on the trail. Don't wanna give the competition an advantage, now do we?

From my experience, anyone attending a survival walk can expect a scorer to look for non-period gear. That's just the way it is. IMHO, deducting points for non-period gear encourages those folks to improve their gear.

It's like anything else, ya gotta learn the ins and outs of any sport. Did you quit playing softball or soccer the first time you played and didn't do well, or do you learn the rules and plays? Same thing with primitive events. The longer you stick around to learn how those things go,  the more fun you have.

If it was easy, after all, everyone would do it.  

IMHO, too many folks read the posts of those who don't want to learn or often don't even try to do any research. Those folks label anyone who does try to do it right an authentinazi or thread counter in an attempt to salvage their own self-esteem when faced with someone who displays higher personal expectations to authenticity. The result is that those complainers with low self-esteem run off many who have never attended an event, simply because of their ignorance.

While there are a few, and in my experience, very, very few who might disparage an newb, a vast majority of reenactors are very considerate of beginners, while at the same time gun shy of helping that beginner for fear of being labeled an authentinazi.

In my experience, most folks who ask for "advice" about their gear and clothing don't really want an honest critique.  Conversely, they seem to want everyone to oooh and ahh over their poorly chosen collection of mismatched clothing and gear.
Their response when the "advise" they ask for doesn't match their perception of their level of authenticity is an expression of anger at the "thread counters".

My advise is to go and have fun and not worry about the elusive "thread counters"...and don't ask for a critique of your clothing and gear if you really don't want an honest answer.

God bless