.50 to .58

[OldMtnMan]

The heavy barrel on my Hawken is getting the best of me. I'm trying to adjust to it but it's not going well. I'm considering having Bobby Hoyt bore it to .58 to save some weight. I'm guessing i'd save almost a pound of weight. Does that sound right? Barrel is 32".

For those who hunt with a .58. How do you like it? What sort of load do you use for deer and bear? Maybe elk if I can get help with meat. Going from a 177gr ball to a 280gr ball is going to give me more recoil but that's better than holding up the heavy barrel offhand.

So, you .58 shooters. How do you like it? Good or bad.

Thanks

[Standing Bear]

Guessed 1” barrel. .61 lbs lighter but a lot of that comes from in front of the support hand.

http://www.gunneyg.info/html/BarrelWeights.htm

[smylee grouch]

58 is ok if barrel is thick enough, 1"ATF and rib screws dont go in too deep.

[OldMtnMan]

I should have mentioned it's 1". No idea about the screws.

[recurve]

Call Bobby Hoyt he's a great guy to talk to,I  have had 2 barrels rebored and a .54 barrel made by him all great shooters

[OldMtnMan]

Call Bobby Hoyt he's a great guy to talk to,I  have had 2 barrels rebored and a .54 barrel made by him all great shooters

What was the cost of the rebore?

[rich pierce]

I have a .58 and like it a lot. Mine is the old Marshall rifle model, swamped and 37-38” long. Great handling gun.

On Saturday I was at the range with my .58 rifle and .69 smoothbore. For fun I dragged a piece of deadfall log about 10” in diameter out and shot it. It was punky wood but not falling apart. Both shot clean through it no problem. I was shooting 90 grains of FFG in the .58. I shot a deer quartering more than I thought with it last fall. The deer was down a steep hill. The ball went in high behind the front shoulder, through a near rib and near lung, then diaphragm, liver, and stomach, exiting low on last rib on the far side. That’s a long wound channel. It is way over what’s needed for deer but I like how the gun handles.

[Hungry Horse]

You might be cutting it close with those rib screws. It sounds like you’re planning on doing mostly hunting with this gun, so think about having it rifled with a gain twist. Then you can shoot balls or heavier bullets for critters that take more killin’.

  Hungry Horse

[OldMtnMan]

Thanks Rich. Your load sounds good for elk. I should be able to use a lighter one for deer. Especially, at my closer range due to vision and primitive sights. The .58 is a good size ball.

I just thought of something. Shouldn't I use a bigger diameter ramrod than the 3/8" i'm using for the .50? Might be a problem finding bigger thimbles. Maybe Bobby can work that out?

[OldMtnMan]

You might be cutting it close with those rib screws. It sounds like you’re planning on doing mostly hunting with this gun, so think about having it rifled with a gain twist. Then you can shoot balls or heavier bullets for critters that take more killin’.

  Hungry Horse

Good grief! What animal would that be? I always used a .54 for elk.

[45-110]

For me and Montana elk I use a .58, it works fine. Have not had to trail one yet that ran onto someone else's property. Get close and do the job right.
kw

[smallpatch]

Just a small wrinkle in the quest for the .58.  Bob will be limited to the size of the breech plug.  I sent him a .50 to bore to a .58 for the same reason as you...... weight.  He would only bore to a .54, so there would remain a shoulder for the breech plug.  I suppose he could have re-breeched the barrel, but that would change everything. Probably to include the refinish of an Allen Martin stock.......not going there!

[smylee grouch]

A 3/8th inch rod will work for a 58. I would prefer a Hickory rod. Choke up on it. 

[Dave Marsh]

I use a 58 with 80 grains FFG and a roundball for hunting.  Have taken several white tails and an elk  Send it to Bobby and he will tell what is safe to do and the best twist.  Should set you back around $150 shipped.  Ramrod should be fine.  Good luck,

Dave

[OldMtnMan]

All good info guys. I knew there would be on this forum.

I'll leave it up to Bobby. If he can go to .58 good. Otherwise a .54 will be better than the .50.

Pedersoli claims a weight of 9.7lbs for the .50 and 9.4lbs for the .54. They don't offer a .58.

I hate to make the barrel shorter but if it can only go to a .54 I could take off a couple of inches to 30". The weight would come off exactly where I want it to.

[Fyrstyk]

Bobby Hoyt took my 50 caliber Browning Mountain rifle to 58 with a 1:66 twist.  Great job.  I use this gun for deer hunting here in CT.  I use 90 grains of 2f for 1" groups 1.5" high at 50 yards.  Some will say that a 58 is overkill for deer, but where I hunt the mountain laurel is so thick that even a well hit deer that runs off 50 or more yards will require about 4 hours of crawling on hands and knees to follow the blood trail.  Since using the .58, every deer I have shot with it has been DRT.  I had Bobby re-bore my T/C Renegade flint lock to .58 with the same twist.  It too is a shooter, and is my go to deer rifle for our late muzzle loader season.

[OldMtnMan]

Bobby Hoyt took my 50 caliber Browning Mountain rifle to 58 with a 1:66 twist.  Great job.  I use this gun for deer hunting here in CT.  I use 90 grains of 2f for 1" groups 1.5" high at 50 yards.  Some will say that a 58 is overkill for deer, but where I hunt the mountain laurel is so thick that even a well hit deer that runs off 50 or more yards will require about 4 hours of crawling on hands and knees to follow the blood trail.  Since using the .58, every deer I have shot with it has been DRT.  I had Bobby re-bore my T/C Renegade flint lock to .58 with the same twist.  It too is a shooter, and is my go to deer rifle for our late muzzle loader season.

I don't have the terrain problem you do but sometimes I do hunt near private land. If I shoot game on public land and it runs to private land the land owner can keep the animal or just say we can't come on his land. That's if we can even find the owner. They don't always live on the land.

So, I agree that knocking them down is a good thing. Hopefully my barrel can go to a .58.

[smylee grouch]

Some people claim that if some is good, more is better. A 58 will do more than a 50 which BTW includes recoil. 

[OldMtnMan]

Yeah, i'm expecting to get punched in the face but that's better than trying to hold up that heavy barrel.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

My favourite offhand rifle is my Chambers/Mark Silver Virginia rifle in .50 cal.  But lately I've been finding it tiring to shoot long strings of shots, at 10 pounds.  Barbie warned me about that when I bought the barrel, as these rifles were designed around .58 and .62 cal bores.
So I bought a .60 cal barrel from her and fit it to my rifle.  Yesterday was the first day I shot our trail with the new barrel, and I am overjoyed with it!  I missed only two or three shots out of 35, and nailed all of the long ones,ie:  around 100 yards.  I did not have issues with tiring or heat waves and there were only Daryl and I shooting.  My favourite load for .60 cal is from a horn measure I made for my .60 cal Jaeger rifle, and it throws 87 gr. FFg GOEX.  I was using balls cast from a .595 Lyman mould that throws balls at .598", and a 10 oz. denim patch that measures .021" crushed.  The starter I had on the bag I have always used with this rifle was for the .50 cal barrel. and I found it almost impossible to load that tight combination with my starter.  So Daryl kindly obliged me letting me use his starter for his .69 cal rifle, the knob of which is from the end of an ash baseball bat.  Even though I have 'improved' my muzzle and was using good slippery lube, you really had to want that ball to load.  Once into the bore, even that tight combo was seated with short strokes of the 3/8" hickory rod which tapers to 5/16" on the inboard end.
I have a Rapine .590" mould and will cast up some rounds and give it another go, but as I said, I'm really pleased with the .60 cal barrel.  I didn't find recoil to be any issue whatsoever.

[rich pierce]

If the breechplug on a barrel to be re-bored to a bigger caliber is 5/8” then it may not be desirable from a safety perspective to go to .58 or larger. If it’s 3/4” then no issues up to 16 gauge, I’d imagine.

[Jeff Murray]

I would leave the caliber choice to the professional barrel makers.  I have always preferred a stout breech with the explosion going off next to my face.  You might do  better shortening the barrel vs. boring it out to lose weight.  You won't lose that much velocity by cutting off a few inches.  Bob Woodfill's new book on Hawken rifles has a chart on page 133 that compares a 36 inch barrel to a 24 inch barrel(54 caliber).  The  largest difference was 140 feet per second at 100 and 120 grains.  If you like the way the barrel shoots, take off some metal, add some powder and you will have what you want.  My 58 caliber Hawken beat me up pretty good while working up a hunting load (up to 140 grains) off of a bench.  I don't even feel the recoil when hunting, never really have while focused on the "shot".   Go to gun is my 50 caliber flinter for most hunting including elk if legal.  The 58 is preferred for things that will hunt me back.

[Bsharp]

For comparison,

http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=528&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes

Not sure how much a re-bore and a new plug would cost.

[OldMtnMan]

I would leave the caliber choice to the professional barrel makers.  I have always preferred a stout breech with the explosion going off next to my face.  You might do  better shortening the barrel vs. boring it out to lose weight.  You won't lose that much velocity by cutting off a few inches.  Bob Woodfill's new book on Hawken rifles has a chart on page 133 that compares a 36 inch barrel to a 24 inch barrel(54 caliber).  The  largest difference was 140 feet per second at 100 and 120 grains.  If you like the way the barrel shoots, take off some metal, add some powder and you will have what you want.  My 58 caliber Hawken beat me up pretty good while working up a hunting load (up to 140 grains) off of a bench.  I don't even feel the recoil when hunting, never really have while focused on the "shot".   Go to gun is my 50 caliber flinter for most hunting including elk if legal.  The 58 is preferred for things that will hunt me back.

I'm not really concerned with velocity. I do want the longer sighting plane. I can see the front sight better on a longer barrel. Plus, a Hawken with a short barrel doesn't look right to me. I would only consider shortening the barrel if it can't be bored to .58.

I know it can be bored to .54. So, as a 2nd choice to the .58 I could do a .54 bore and 2" off the length.

[smylee grouch]

Well if you cut 2 inches of barrel off, you will need to drill and tap for new rib screws and reposition the ramrod thimbles plus dovetail for new front sight position.