.50 to .58

[OldMtnMan]

I assume Bobby can do all that.

[Daryl]

Many fellows can do that work, but, do they - I guess, if commissioned to do it at the time.

[OldMtnMan]

I just talked to me Lakota friend and we're going to do a cow elk hunt. I've decided that i've gotten too old to do any hunt by myself. Knees and back won't let me get the game skinned and quartered. I tried to simulate it and I can't do it anymore. My friend said it's no problem, he'll do all the work of getting the elk out. I'll pay him if he'll take it which I doubt but he will take meat, so he'll get half the meat.

I just talked to Bobby and we decided a .54 will be the best choice for me. He thought the .58 would be too much recoil after I told him a few of my problems. The .54 will also be legal to use a PRB in Colorado. It won't be lightened as much as the .58 would be but it will be better than what I have now. I'm used to getting a sight picture fast and shooting. Been doing that all my life. So, a little weight off the barrel will help.

I forgot to ask him his address but I have one that I don't know if it's his new address. I know he moved. Is this right?

700 Fairfield Station Rd.
Fairfield, PA. 17320

[martin9]

His new address is 2379 Mount Hope Road
Fairfield, PA 17320

I bought a barrel from him recently and still have the package.

[OldMtnMan]

I'm glad I asked.

Thank you.

[Jeff Murray]

My Hawken has a 36 inch barrel and I agree it looks better than a short one. Being old and skinny it does get heavy after a few hours in the woods.   The Hawken shop did make short barreled rifles for hunters that wanted them easier to handle on horseback.  Its good to have choices.

[OldMtnMan]

I have a couple of spots I can hunt that are pretty flat. It has a pretty good herd of cow elk in mid Sept when i'll be hunting. So, carrying the gun shouldn't be as bad as hauling it up and down the mountain like I normally do.

I'm sure i'll still get tired but it's nice to know if I get a cow that I don't have to get it out alone.

It would have been easier if I could have found a .54 when I bought the gun but they were all gone at the time. Having Bobby bore it is a lot cheaper than selling the gun and buying another new .54. Plus, with Bobby I get deep rifling. Which I like better than the shallow rifling the gun comes with.

[utseabee]

I use a 570 ball with .022 patch and either 90 grains of swiss 2F or 105 grains of goex 2F. Both group well and hit the same point of impact at 50 yards. I have a Rice barrel and this rifle shoots much better when loaded with heavier charges. 58 is my favorite caliber. Mine doesn't kick at all, but it is an earlier style rifle. A Hawken but plate could be a little bit of an issue. The 54 might be a better choice for you. Bobby will do a great job. I think you would like his .54 caliber in a gain twist.

[smylee grouch]

Sometimes a half inch shorter length of trigger pull will change the balance so it won't feel as muzzle heavy.

[Daryl]

Hooked butt plates and recoil do not compute for me, any more.

[OldMtnMan]

Sometimes a half inch shorter length of trigger pull will change the balance so it won't feel as muzzle heavy.

 

It's already too short at 14". I have long arms.

[OldMtnMan]

Hooked butt plates and recoil do not compute for me, any more.

Explain?

[OldMtnMan]

I have a friend who shoots a modern muzzleloader. I asked him for a conical I could try in my gun. It weighs 270gr. That will give me an idea of what the .58 280gr ball will feel like.

If the recoil isn't bad i'll stick with the original plan and have Bobby bore it to .58. He said my breech plug is 3/4" so boring to a .58 is no problem. If i'm not happy with the recoil of the 270gr conical i'll do the .54.

It's not the one shot taken when hunting that recoil would bother me but all the practice I like to do all year.

[Jeff Murray]

Just an FYI - my 58 cal. Hawken has a Hoyt barrel with a gain twist.  It shoots great groups with round ball and and decent ones with a mini.  I am still working on the mini load due to recoil off of a bench.  Moving has given me  a great excuse to wimp out for a while.  If  you do decide to have Hoyt re-bore it you should get great results.

[Daryl]

In my 58 Hawken, using a modified #57789 Lyman mould at 675gr., I got sub 3" (mostly around 2") groups at 100 yards using 165gr. of GOEX 2F
for 1,375fps mv. The rifle weighed almost 12 pounds, but was NOT fun to shoot with those loads. Bill Large bl. 60" or 66" twist.

[OldMtnMan]

In my 58 Hawken, using a modified #57789 Lyman mould at 675gr., I got sub 3" (mostly around 2") groups at 100 yards using 165gr. of GOEX 2F
for 1,375fps mv. The rifle weighed almost 12 pounds, but was NOT fun to shoot with those loads. Bill Large bl. 60" or 66" twist.

That hurt just reading it. I'm not sure how much money i'd have to be paid to shoot that load but it would be a lot.

[OldMtnMan]

My hunting area. Of course i'm in the timber and not the open areas. Right at timberline about 11,500ft. Elk, mule deer, and bear.

[Jeff Murray]

Daryl,  are you using mink oil as a lube on your mini round.  I have been experimenting with SPG bullet lube and have yet to try mink oil on that load.

[Dphariss]

The heavy barrel on my Hawken is getting the best of me. I'm trying to adjust to it but it's not going well. I'm considering having Bobby Hoyt bore it to .58 to save some weight. I'm guessing i'd save almost a pound of weight. Does that sound right? Barrel is 32".

For those who hunt with a .58. How do you like it? What sort of load do you use for deer and bear? Maybe elk if I can get help with meat. Going from a 177gr ball to a 280gr ball is going to give me more recoil but that's better than holding up the heavy barrel offhand.

So, you .58 shooters. How do you like it? Good or bad.

Thanks

There are round bar calculators on the WWW. Figure the 50 at .52 and the 58 at .60 to allow for the groove dimension of the barrel. See what you get and if it will be worth it. I think its a waste of money myself. You simply need a different rifle or a 28"-30" barrel.

If weight is an issue order one of Jim Kiblers SMR kits in 45.

Dan

[OldMtnMan]

A .54 is the minimum I can use on elk. If i'm going to have it bored out I might as well go to a .58 and lose more weight.

No need to change guns. That would cost the most to do and I like the Hawken I have.

I like the .58 better for bear too in case I don't get the elk tag.

[OldMtnMan]

Nobody likes my hunting area? I should say one of my hunting areas. I have about 20 of them.

I do like the one I showed. It has a few old crude log cabins or what's left of them. Probably built by a mountain man trapper. Lot's of beavers there.

[Dphariss]

I have a couple of spots I can hunt that are pretty flat. It has a pretty good herd of cow elk in mid Sept when i'll be hunting. So, carrying the gun shouldn't be as bad as hauling it up and down the mountain like I normally do.

I'm sure i'll still get tired but it's nice to know if I get a cow that I don't have to get it out alone.

It would have been easier if I could have found a .54 when I bought the gun but they were all gone at the time. Having Bobby bore it is a lot cheaper than selling the gun and buying another new .54. Plus, with Bobby I get deep rifling. Which I like better than the shallow rifling the gun comes with.

Weight reduction going to 54 will be minimal. I would have it cut to a 48 twist (this was the twist originally used by Hawken) and have it cut to 30" or maybe 28". This will give you far greater decrease in weight than 50 to 54.  A considerable number of surviving original Hawkens were shortened. The 54 is a better idea for elk and the 48 twist will likely shoot better and tolerate all the powder you can tolerate. 100+ grains anyway. I think that twists for rifles under 58 are too slow these days.
Bear? Remember the Black Bears in the East were pretty large, larger than the Western Blacks and few original Kentuckys were over 52 caliber. Both from surviving rifles and from descriptions from the colonial era.
A 58 with one inch barrel in a Hawken stock design would not be my first choice.

Dan

[OldMtnMan]

We do have some good size bears. Not common but you never know when you'll run into one.

An example.

https://www.craigdailypress.com/news/craig-resident-nabs-703-pound-bear-possible-state-record/

Another
https://www.skyhinews.com/news/hunter-shoots-huge-bear-near-fraser/

[OldMtnMan]

Dave,

 I understand the gun I own is not practical for me. However, I love the Hawken rifle and have since 1980. I try to keep it as close to the original as possible. I can shoot and hunt with the gun as is. Any weight I can get off the barrel will help me keep it shouldered a bit longer. Going to a .54 is strictly to make it legal for elk in my state. It seems foolish to do that though. My main goal is the lighten up the barrel and add some more knock down power. It won't cost a penny more to go to a .58 instead of a .54. I believe taking 3/4 lb off the barrel is something I can feel. I don't want to shorten it because the longer sighting plane helps me see the front sight better.

So, after more thought on this. I believe going to a .58 is my best choice. I'm aware the original Hawken was a 1-48 twist and that's what the gun is now. I don't mind staying with 1-48 as long a s it's a deep groove. It's not right now and i'm not sure what Pedersoli was thinking by using a shallow groove? They make a hunter version with a faster twist for conicals. So, mine was made for a PRB. Why the shallow groove.

Anyway, I talked with Bobby about the .54. I'll see what he recommends for a .58 twist. I don't plan on using heavy powder loads, so a faster twist seems like the hot tip.

Thanks for your posts.

[Ezra]

I have a Lancaster with a 44”, .58 caliber barrel.  I use ~90-100 grains of 3FFF and a patched round ball.  As for use on deer, let’s just say, it’s quite sufficient.    Last mule deer buck I shot with it jumped, did a two step and dropped dead as a doornail within 10 feet of being hit in the frontal chest cavity.  That .58 caliber ball is a big ol’ punkin’.



Ez