.50 to .58

[OldMtnMan]

I have a Lancaster with a 44”, .58 caliber barrel.  I use ~90-100 grains of 3FFF and a patched round ball.  As for use on deer, let’s just say, it’s quite sufficient.    Last buck I shot with it jumped, did a two step and dropped dead as a doornail within 10 feet of being hit in the frontal chest cavity.  That .58 caliber ball is a big ol’ punkin’.

Ez

That's what I was thinking. That hunting area I show above has a few old mining claims in the area that are private property. If I shot and animal that dies on one of those claims i'd never get it back. I don't believe the owners of those mine claims even live in Colorado. A .58 ball should knock a muley off it's feet.

Plus, i'm thinking a heavy Hawken that's a .58 seems so right. If a grumpy bear wants to eat my deer it's going to eat some lead. The more lead the better.

Good job with the muley.

[Daryl]

Pete- a 48" twist will shoot just fine with about 85gr. of 2F.  Taylor's 16 bore has a 48" rate of twist and it does just fine with 85gr. - 2 to 2 1/2" at 100 meters (109yds).
The vel. in that 30"or + inch .58 barrel will be about 1,350fps.

 My 24" .58 did 1,308fps with a .575"ball, .021" patch and 75gr. 2F.  Now, I realize you won't be loading that tight, but the ballistics should suffice.

[OldMtnMan]

The barrel is 32" and will stay that way. I don't want to shorten it.

I only use a .015 patch now but could probably use an .018. Pedersoli makes tight bores. We'll have to wait to see how Bobby makes it. I'm not against thick patches if I can get it down.

[alacran]

Don't know what your wood working abilities are. But if you change the under rib to a hickory under rib, and pin your pipes to it you'll cut about 8 ounces off the gun.

[OldMtnMan]

Don't know what your wood working abilities are. But if you change the under rib to a hickory under rib, and pin your pipes to it you'll cut about 8 ounces off the gun.

I never heard of doing that before. That saves more weight than I would have guessed.

I couldn't do it myself though.

[rich pierce]

Some under ribs are solid; a few are formed sheet metal and light. I’d guess most under ribs I’ve seen weigh a couple ounces.

[OldMtnMan]

Rich.....As heavy as this barrel feels it's probably a solid rib.

[smylee grouch]

You could skeletonize that portion of the rib with a 1/4" drill bit. remove rib and drill a bunch of shallow holes part way through and then replace rib. Not much weight reduction but some. 

[OldMtnMan]

I'll wait and see how it feels after I get Bobby to bore it to .58. Hopefully, that will be enough for it to feel comfortable to shoot.

I just talked to my Lakota friend and he said he's 100% sure he can help me on the elk hunt. He said don't worry about skinning, quartering, and hauling the meat out. He'd do it all. That's a big load off me. I know I can't do any of it anymore. Old age and medical problems have no sympathy for an old guy who still wants to hunt.

My problem now is getting an elk tag. I only put in for a deer and bear tag thinking I could do those alone. It turns out I can't and i'll turn them back in and let another hunter get them as left over tags. So, my only hope to hunt this year is to get an elk tag in the 2nd draw or as a leftover tag. Fingers and toes are crossed I get lucky. I do miss elk meat.

[alacran]

I bought a .58 barrel so I could switch it with my .54 Hawken. Everything is the same on the barrel except the .54 is 37 inches long including the breech plug. I wanted to eliminate as much weight as possible.
 I took the leftover under rib from the .54 and weighed it. I divided that the length to give me the weight in inches. I also weighed the thimbles. If I remember correctly the solid under rib came in a hair under 10 ounces by my calculation, since  I did not want to remove the under rib and weigh it.
 I made a hickory under rib and I pinned two thimbles I made. I screwed it to the barrel with 5-40 screws. I also epoxied it to keep moisture from getting under it. Long story short the hickory under rib with thimbles came in at two ounces.
All that and the difference in the weight of the barrel brought the .58 at just under nine pounds.
 With the .54 barrel that Hawken weighs in at ten and a half pounds.

[Ezra]

I just talked to my Lakota friend and he said he's 100% sure he can help me on the elk hunt. He said don't worry about skinning, quartering, and hauling the meat out. He'd do it all.

All I can say is your Lakota buddy is one heck of a friend.  I hope you are planning on letting him take home some of that elk he’s gonna labor over.

Ez

[OldMtnMan]

I just talked to my Lakota friend and he said he's 100% sure he can help me on the elk hunt. He said don't worry about skinning, quartering, and hauling the meat out. He'd do it all.

All I can say is your Lakota buddy is one heck of a friend.  I hope you are planning on letting him take home some of that elk he’s gonna labor over.

Ez

Yes, he gets half the meat. Right down the middle. We each get a loin, backstrap, rear quarter, front shoulder and neck and rib meat. He told me I don't have to do that but I feel it's not enough. I'd like to pay him too but he'd never take it. We're going to use his truck because my Jeep is too small for both of us. I'll buy all his gas and make sure he ends up with a full tank.

[OldMtnMan]

I bought a .58 barrel so I could switch it with my .54 Hawken. Everything is the same on the barrel except the .54 is 37 inches long including the breech plug. I wanted to eliminate as much weight as possible.
 I took the leftover under rib from the .54 and weighed it. I divided that the length to give me the weight in inches. I also weighed the thimbles. If I remember correctly the solid under rib came in a hair under 10 ounces by my calculation, since  I did not want to remove the under rib and weigh it.
 I made a hickory under rib and I pinned two thimbles I made. I screwed it to the barrel with 5-40 screws. I also epoxied it to keep moisture from getting under it. Long story short the hickory under rib with thimbles came in at two ounces.
All that and the difference in the weight of the barrel brought the .58 at just under nine pounds.
 With the .54 barrel that Hawken weighs in at ten and a half pounds.

Your gun is light with that long barrel. Mine is 10 lbs with only a 32" barrel. Is yours 1"? How long is the .58 barrel?

[OldMtnMan]

Sorry for putting you all through this but everything just changed.

I was looking in my closet for something and I found a back support I used to use years ago. I had forgot all about it. It's just for my lower back but when pulled tight it really helps my back.

So, I put it on and pulled it as tight as I could. My first thought was...this feels good. I look over at the Hawken and thought maybe the support will help me shoulder it. I grab the gun and shoulder it. No pain! I could hold it up about 4 seconds. More than enough to get a shot off. I was lucky to get 1 second without the support and it hurt to do that.

I had to go shoot the gun and see how it all worked out. I drew a small bullseye on a cardboard box to have something to shoot at.
 First shot with 70 gr Goex 2F at 25 yds. Dead center. I couldn't stop smiling. Recoil was so soft it felt like a .22. A heavy gun does have some advantages. I then tried 80 gr. Still really soft shooting. Still dead center. I then tried 90 gr. Now I could feel some recoil but still easy to take. Still dead center. I'm sure the loads would be different elevations on the target if I was at a longer distance. Ok, I said to myself. Let's try 100 gr. Not a hard recoil at all but did poke my thumb in the nose a little bit. LOP is a bit short but not noticeable until I tried 100 gr. The shot wasn't dead center  like the other loads. So, I shot 4 shot groups with each load at 50 yds.

Without question the 90 gr load was the sweet spot. I felt good enough about it to mark the ramrod for that load.

I believe at my max distance of 50 yds that 90 gr of 2F is enough for a cow elk which is all i'll be hunting from now on. I never was a trophy hunter but now for sure all I want is the experience of another elk hunt and some tasty elk meat.

This saves me some money too. I won't have to send the barrel to Bobby with the cost of having it bored, plus shipping both ways. No need to buy .58 shooting supplies either. I have everything I need already.

I'm impressed with Pedersoli. I'm shooting good groups and they're dead center. I haven't touched the sights since buying the gun new. The first gun i've ever bought that did that.

Whatcha think guys?

[Bsharp]

Glad that the brace works for you!

But you still need a 58!

[OldMtnMan]

 

[OldMtnMan]

Oh man! What's the matter with me? I completely forgot that a .50 PRB isn't legal for elk in Colorado. Well, I would have used the .50 if Colorado didn't go stupid on us.

I guess i'll be sending the barrel to Bobby after all. Nuts!!

I'll just do a .54.

[Daryl]

I like sound of a .54 for elk much more than a .50, even for cows.

[alacran]

I bought a .58 barrel so I could switch it with my .54 Hawken. Everything is the same on the barrel except the .54 is 37 inches long including the breech plug. I wanted to eliminate as much weight as possible.
 I took the leftover under rib from the .54 and weighed it. I divided that the length to give me the weight in inches. I also weighed the thimbles. If I remember correctly the solid under rib came in a hair under 10 ounces by my calculation, since  I did not want to remove the under rib and weigh it.
 I made a hickory under rib and I pinned two thimbles I made. I screwed it to the barrel with 5-40 screws. I also epoxied it to keep moisture from getting under it. Long story short the hickory under rib with thimbles came in at two ounces.
All that and the difference in the weight of the barrel brought the .58 at just under nine pounds.
 With the .54 barrel that Hawken weighs in at ten and a half pounds.

Your gun is light with that long barrel. Mine is 10 lbs with only a 32" barrel. Is yours 1"? How long is the .58 barrel?

I weigh my guns on a digital scale. Barrels are one inch across the flats. Both have Griffith breech plugs.

[OldMtnMan]

Has anybody tried these? I've read a bunch of reviews and they seem positive. Lot's of guys use them in a 1-48 twist like my barrel has. 20gr heavier than a .54 PRB and a better BC. They should hit harder.

The best part is they're legal for elk in Colorado and $18 for 50 is a good price.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/hornady-pa-conical-bullet-50-caliber-240-grain-lead-h6617.html

[Daryl]

No - have not used those. Note the lack of decent lube grooves.
Likely a wax/wash of sorts. It will most likely not be loadable for a second shot
without "swabbing" the bore, but trying them is the only way to find out.
I thought the .50 was to heavy?

[OldMtnMan]

It is but it will still be heavy bored to .54. It will cost me $200 with shipping to bore it out and I could be 2 months without the gun. The hunt is in 3 months. I'd like to be shooting it all summer.

These conicals could be an easy answer. I could also sell the gun and buy a lighter .54 but that's not my first choice.

[Ezra]

A .54 will, undoubtedly work for elk.  I will just say, too much gun beats the heck out of the alternative. 


Ez

[OldMtnMan]

That's true. I really should poke it out to a .58. I don't want to shoot anything but a PRB and some of the old bores (bears) get pretty grumpy. They've been known to stalk hunters. I'd feel better about shooting a .58 ball than a .54 or a tiny .50.

I remember Roundball used to say you need whompability or something like that.

[OldMtnMan]

A quick question. Which barrel would be lighter?

30" .54  1"

32" .54 15/16"