Author Topic: Good rifles bring good money (Read 4443 times)

rlm · « **on:** May 19, 2021, 04:28:25 PM »

Some Kentucky Rifle prices from recent Morphys Auction. Early Bucks Co rifle 192k, J P Beck rifles 120k,78k, and 50.4K. Lafayette, Chief Tunis rifle 210k. I don’t have access to all the returns. These were listed on Facebook. I’m not sure if these prices include the buyers premium. If you are not a dealer you would also be subject to additional PA 6% sales tax. I really liked the untouched Beck and felt it may have been a little under the money.

JTR · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2021, 03:28:05 AM »

It's nice to see the prices bumping up again!

spgordon · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2021, 02:01:13 PM »

Speaking of prices: this article describes the price (about $306,000) for which the rifle from the Rochester Museum sold as "a value that the auction house and serious collectors of such guns said obliterated the record amount paid for a Kentucky rifle at auction."

https://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/rochester/rare-rochester-historical-society-kentucky-rifle-fetches-record-306000-at-auction/Content?oid=13188522&fbclid=IwAR0gbc15ha3IRj8Uu9gBeHvt04E31KhBBZYbpUzJslO40uqKSyqrQJH59YE

I had heard years ago (and have often repeated, perhaps wrongly, I now realize) that an Oerter rifle sold to a New York collector for considerably more than $300,000. Perhaps that story that I've been repeating vastly inflated the sale price?

Do we believe that, at $306,000, the sale price of this Rochester rifle has surpassed all previous sale prices?

Shreckmeister · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2021, 02:30:08 PM »

In a search of Morphy’s results it would be the auction record. I recall the Oerter was a private sale. At least the article is good exposure for the “hobby”. I think I recall another auction broke $306k. A Kuntz maybe. Memory fails. I’m glad my beloved western PA rifles don’t play in that park😁. I recall a Savage 99 going over 350k but that’s another topic. Congrats to the buyer!

Seth Isaacson · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2021, 03:44:27 PM »

Things were strong over here in Rock Island last weekend as well. Prices realized are now online. The Resor "ghost rifle" brought $138,000, and the Running Deer Rifle brought $161,000.

JTR · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2021, 05:36:39 PM »

Yes, the Oerter rifle was a private sale, so won't count as an auction record.

spgordon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2021, 08:55:27 PM »

John -- Do you recall (roughly) what the Oerter rifle that sold privately sold for? I understand that, as a private sale, there was no public record. But what do folks think it sold for? -- Scott

JTR · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2021, 10:36:16 PM »

Well Scott, private sale means it also has to stay private, and I'm not at liberty to say.

spgordon · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2021, 02:55:06 AM »

Quote from: JTR on May 20, 2021, 10:36:16 PM

Well Scott, private sale means it also has to stay private, and I'm not at liberty to say.

Yes, if you are privy to the actual figures, you should keep it to yourself. It's not ethical to reveal privileged information.

But for others (not you), those who are not privy to privileged information, there is nothing unethical about saying "I heard it sold at a private sale for ...."

That said, I certainly understand if nobody wants to state here what they've heard. [And I've removed the specific figure I heard from my post above.]

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2021, 11:30:45 PM »

Just so ya know..! I decided not to bid.... Lol. Oldtravler

Cades Cove Fiddler · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2021, 04:03:27 AM »

... ALL money is good money,... !!! .... money is no object,... I don't object to it at all,... !!!! ..... the signed Alfred Bearden Tennessee rifle sold recently to a member here for "good money", .... he got a bargain,... !!!... he would agree it was "good money" to him,... !!!

WESTbury · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2021, 04:50:04 AM »

My personal opinion on private sales after 45 years of collecting, is that they are just that, PRIVATE.

How ever there is nothing wrong with inquiring. Besides, it's always fun to ask the price and then try to figure out if the number they give you is high because they are bragging, or low because the purchaser is afraid to get the response, "Wow, you really paid way too much for that!".

Tanselman · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2021, 06:46:05 AM »

It never seems clear cut on some high dollar sales between individuals. When the Oerter rifle was sold some years ago for a huge sum, a number of KRA members apparently learned what the numbers were. It was a private sale between two members, worked out between them in confidence, so how did the numbers get out to others if the buyer and seller really wanted to keep it confidential?

I think private-sale values get "leaked" intentionally at times, to help support the future value of the gun when it comes up for sale the next time... as all of these great rifles eventually do.

Shelby Gallien

spgordon · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2021, 03:43:11 PM »

Quote from: WESTbury on May 22, 2021, 04:50:04 AM

My personal opinion on private sales after 45 years of collecting, is that they are just that, PRIVATE.

Quote from: Tanselman on May 22, 2021, 06:46:05 AM

It was a private sale between two members, worked out between them in confidence, so how did the numbers get out to others if the buyer and seller really wanted to keep it confidential?

I think private-sale values get "leaked" intentionally at times, to help support the future value of the gun when it comes up for sale the next time... as all of these great rifles eventually do.

Excellent question.

The only thing it takes for a private sale to stay private is for both parties to not speak about the prices.

Some numbers certainly got out to others, since I heard them. I guess, given the possible motives involved in leaking, there's no way to know whether what I heard was accurate or high (or low).

Doesn't much matter, obviously. Just gossip!

WESTbury · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2021, 05:55:21 PM »

Scott,

That about wraps this up, perhaps one of the parties was either bragging or complaining.

Kent

Tanselman · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2021, 07:51:25 PM »

Knowing the two men involved, both class acts who handle and know the value of exceptional rifles, I strongly doubt either man was bragging or complaining.

I think a more fair assessment is that neither party was overly worried about the price getting out, close friends/associates asked about it, and it was divulged on a limited basis. Since future sales are often fueled by prior sale prices, letting "ball park" figures out helps support the rifle's value to potential future buyers. Will the Oerter rifle sell for the same amount in the future? No one knows, but knowing approximately what a highly experienced, knowledgeable collector was willing to pay for it in the past will help keep its market value up.

Shelby Gallien

WESTbury · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2021, 08:56:17 PM »

Shelby,

Thanks for the clarification, sounds reasonable.

I will not be in the market for the rifle, until I get my next Covid Relief check

Kent

wabeek · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2021, 04:56:10 PM »

TANSELMAN'S and JTR'S observations I can echo as my own experience as well!
WABEEK

lexington1 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2021, 07:54:26 PM »

Since Mikes name is brought up I will throw my opinion into the mix as well. Mike is a true gentleman and true to his word. I've never dealt with a finer person.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2021, 11:07:19 PM »

I must echo the sentiments and comments of the last responses. Mike is sold gold and to have him brought into this discussion when the topic was clearly "Auction Guns" is not acceptable. Furthermore, I think that all comments relating to him should be stricken from this forum.
Dick

spgordon · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2021, 11:16:36 PM »

Quote from: mr. no gold on May 23, 2021, 11:07:19 PM

... to have him brought into this discussion when the topic was clearly "Auction Guns" is not acceptable. Furthermore, I think that all comments relating to him should be stricken from this forum.

I defer entirely to what the moderators think is appropriate, of course. I had never heard the gentleman's name before somebody mentioned it on this forum.

It is important to note, however, that the topic was not "Auction Guns": it was (and is) "Good rifles bring good money."

Scott

Tanselman · « **Reply #21 on:** May 24, 2021, 12:32:34 AM »

To Dick and others... The seller of the Oerter rifle was/is a known national dealer in antique arms, and I believe other arms dealers have been mentioned on this forum in the past. Therefore I did not think it inappropriate to mention him as a dealer. However, it is probably best to avoid names as Dick has suggested, so I have deleted references to him in my prior posts.

Shelby Gallien

mr. no gold · « **Reply #22 on:** May 24, 2021, 01:54:45 AM »

Nevertheless, Scott, this went a bit beyond the bounds of decorum. Thank you Shelby for your concern and action. I understand that these thing happen without giving full thought to what is written, but there are limits. Thank you to all who understand the 'ins and outs' of antique gun buying and selling. To those of you who do not, you have some things to learn.
Dick

WESTbury · « **Reply #23 on:** May 24, 2021, 04:42:22 AM »

Well, so much for "Private Sale".

rich pierce · « **Reply #24 on:** May 24, 2021, 04:50:17 AM »

Much of this “really, this is for insiders; those in the know and in the club” is discouraging for anyone considering becoming a serious collector. And maybe that’s the goal.

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Author Topic: Good rifles bring good money (Read 4443 times)