How to shoot all day without swabbing?

[Daryl]

I am not loading 225 in 12 bore, only 175FF.

This is not about patch thickness, although a thicker patch will hold more lube, agreed!

What about putting a wafer of the harder black powder bullet lube under the patched ball for more lube?

Do you think it would help with loading like a lubed wad in a smooth bore?

Maybe.  Lyman's BP Gold, or SPG lube ball between powder and patched ball should help. I might be concerned about oil migration from the lube to the powder, maybe.
In loading ctgs. with lube ball, we use a barrier between the lube ball and powder. That barrier can be Bee Brood Foundation (disk of BeesWax) or a round "punched" from wax paper.
This barrier is totally consumed when the gun goes off, but it does keep the fouling soft & allows shooting even paper patched bullets without having to wipe the bore.
If you use a decent ball and patch combination with Track's mink oil, this is not necessary.

[Bsharp]

Daryl, I was thinking of wax paper, but a wafer of bees wax might be good also. That is more pliable and would squash out and not tare.

I went back and checked my loads, and I am only running 125FF and a .725 PRB. Heavy canvas.

For hunting I have the Patched .725 ball, then the .720 with 2 wraps of paper in the tapered cartridge.

Same impact at 75 yds.

Or you can use a .715 Hard ball wrapped in paper, it shoots an inch or two right.

Any way, I [We] have the fastest reloads, now to help keep the bore well lathered.

Fast reloads:

http://rjrenner.blogspot.com/p/tapered-paper-cartridges.html

[bob in the woods]

I shoot my 10 bore a lot.  My moose and bear load is 140 gr FFg  . Once or twice I've accidentally double charged it, [ 280 gr ]   One memorable time was at the Ontario Provincial matches, and that shot was not on target.      A fellow shooter was commenting on my gun at the time and I was distracted .  At any rate, I only mention this because of the accuracy tests I've done and my gun seems to live in the 100 to 140 gr FFg range. 
As too loading, I have used a lube wad under a bullet to help with fouling. That was in a .45 cal muzzleloading long range rifle. It definitely helped with keeping the fouling manageable.
However, I don't use one in my patched ball guns, because , aside from requiring a separate operation to seat one before the patched ball, I haven't found it necessary.  The fouling from one shot is wiped down by the loading of the next patched ball. This is really demonstrated in full by my shooting a number of paper cartridges without lube, and then when the fouling becomes noticeable ,  one shot with a sopping wet patch and ball is enough to allow the shooting of the cartridges again.  That really says it all.

[Daryl]

This is really demonstrated in full by my shooting a number of paper cartridges without lube, and then when the fouling becomes noticeable ,  one shot with a sopping wet patch and ball is enough to allow the shooting of the cartridges again.  That really says it all.

Exactly. In my .69, this needing a cleaning shot comes at 10 shots. The cleaning shot is 85(or 82)gr. 2F, and a wet patched ball. Seating this load cleans the bore and allows for 10 more shots with ctgs.
When I was practiced with these tapered ctgs. I could load, cap and fire an second aimed shot in 8 seconds after the first.  This allowed a necessary second shot on my first moose with this rifle.
The reason was that the first ball hit the rather huge leg bone and although smashing it asunder, didn't penetrate into the lung cavity. It did make the moose sick enough to sit down, his rear legs buckling, then he turned about and paused long enough for the coup-de-gras.

[Bsharp]

The second shot with a muzzle loader! Nice to be prepared!

[Daryl]

That second ball, of WW alloy, crossed side to side, made a permanent 3" diameter hole through both lungs, smashed the off side shoulder above where the first ball hit
and stopped against the hide, barely expanded.  The first ball was of pure lead and stopped after smashing the on-side leg & didn't make it into the lungs. Would it have
penned further if going slower? - I doubt that very much.  What it might have done if a smaller charge, is not made him as sick & he likely would have left the scene.  When
that first ball, started at 1,550fps, smacked him, his butt hit the ground as his hind legs buckled and he shook his head, side to side, then staggered his feet and turned around,
only to receive the second shot - staggered a few steps and dropped. If I had to wipe the bore between shots? What would have happened? A 3-legged moose can go a long way.

[Bsharp]

I used a wafer of "Red Rooster" black powder bullet lube on top of the powder.

Wad stuck to the ball for 20 yards.

Same point of impact as first shots.

It did load easy for the second shot, but that may be from lubing the bore with a wet patch of Neatsfoot oil.

Slater up the bore after loading with a clean bore helps point of impact.

I will have to try wet lubing the bore after loading for the second and third balls...............

Picture of lubed patch.

[Blacktail]

Daryl, what do you use to cut those crowns? I assume you're also using a short starter?

[wolf]

i have never shot "all day" but i have shot 30-40 times or so in one session. water/dawn dish soap, 50/50 mix. the first tight patched ball will slide down the bore like as smooth as a silk, the last tight patched ball will do the same. i can load my guns without a ball starter even on the last shot, patches comes out perfect and accuracy is the same. the gun cleans better using this also. i know in the 1700s they never used this method, but they would have if they had it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[OldMtnMan]

It's easy to load all day with any liquid. Have you tried just water without the Dawn?

[Frank]

Ball 5 thousandths under bore diameter and a .015-.020 spit patch. Been working for at least 40 years.

[Bsharp]

The 4th shot is really hard to load, even after swabbing the bore with neatsfoot after loading.

.686 ball with ticking, tight load.

Oh well, this is a hunting and not a target rifle, so as long as I can get the "tapered Paper Cartridge" stuffed down for a second shot. That is all that matters.

Some times that second shot is needed.

[wolf]

It's easy to load all day with any liquid. Have you tried just water without the Dawn?

never tried plain water. but i have used spit. it dose work but nothing like with the dawn. with dawn the barrel stays clean comparatively speaking, and the clean up is a lot faster,,,,,,,,,,,

[OldMtnMan]

I guess it would. Water and dawn are what I use to clean when done shooting. Your doing it every shot.

[wolf]

I guess it would. Water and dawn are what I use to clean when done shooting. Your doing it every shot.

yes sir  i guess i am, the patches are perfect and the accuracy is good as anything else. it works better than any gimmick i have ever tried. i clean with Windex now. i was using a few different things but Windex is far better than anything i have ever used,,,,,,,,,,

[smylee grouch]

I CLEAN with plain water and nothing else but a WD 40 patch once the bore is dried and I tried using plain water for patch lube with poor results.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I echo SG's post.  I have found that plain water is no good for a patch lube, but mixed with water soluble oil or Ballistol, 10:1, makes a great patch lube.  Water likes a little oil to aid in the slide down the bore.  I like WD 40 too, but use G 96 often too, cause I like the smell.

[bob in the woods]

Taylor, ref your liking the smell .  I recently started to add juniper berries to the pot when I render my bear oil.  Now I have a lube that has a faint smell of gin 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

That's a hoot Bob.  My late friend Helmut couldn't stand the taste of his denim precut patches, so he soaked them in brandy or rum and let them dry.  Then when he withdrew a patch and put it into his mouth, he had a smile on his face from the liquor flavoured patch.  What a guy!!

[Maven]

I don't know whether to shake my head in awe or something else at that one Taylor.  On second thought, I may have to try it too. 

[Bsharp]

I tried some 'Purple Power' degreaser. spray bottle.

Feels a little soapy, worked well . Seems to clean as you load.

said it is bio-degradable......ok

then I read the SDS

https://f405ae25-bd48-4e9f-92a9-0f03256f19bb.filesusr.com/ugd/14ad0e_342940d078d94505b11d1358c997718c.pdf

But it does have a corrosion inhibitor.

https://f405ae25-bd48-4e9f-92a9-0f03256f19bb.filesusr.com/ugd/14ad0e_139e7fe738784d5881da5dab5b871315.pdf

[smallpatch]

BS,
 I just can’t see where a degreaser would be a good lube. Kind of counter intuitive. Lube is kinda the main point.

[Bsharp]

smallpatch, just letting you know that it worked. But may not be the most healthy to use.

[Bsharp]

After reading the home made patch lube messages and using the Purple Power, I need a better patch lube.

Say some Neatsfoot with some 'krud Cutter'.

The 'krud Cutter', [cleaner] to break up the fouling and a bit of lube.

I remember trying WWF years ago, don't remember if it was a lube or barrel cleaner.

Should have kept better notes!!!!

[hanshi]

That's a hoot Bob.  My late friend Helmut couldn't stand the taste of his denim precut patches, so he soaked them in brandy or rum and let them dry.  Then when he withdrew a patch and put it into his mouth, he had a smile on his face from the liquor flavoured patch.  What a guy!!

TOW mink oil and Hoppes BP Lube do it for all my shooting.  For cleaning I will occasionally put a drop of Dawn in the water.  Imagine my recent surprise when I picked up the Dawn and for the first time noticed I'd been using ANTIBACTERIAL HAND SOAP!  Well, at least I know the barrels won't get sick.