Author Topic: Finished Kibler SMR with issues  (Read 8784 times)

Offline porchdog48

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2021, 12:43:46 PM »
My Dad used to say some people have 20 years experience, and some have one years experience 20 times.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2021, 01:36:15 PM »
It is for me a little bit irritating , that the OP apparently is not taking part on the discussion. But he only mentioned,  "an old retired Air Force dude who has built 20+ rifles and had 2 in progress when I went to his shop. " No gunsmith.

It seems not to be so easy to finish a Kibler Kit!
I have put together ten or more  spanish replica kits back in the 1980s. A little bit of sanding, polishing,  staining, blueing ....... that was easy to do!
But a Kibler Kit seems to require more skills! I wonder if my own skills would be good enough?
I can and have assembled these kits in 3-4 hours ready to sand/scrape and finish.
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2021, 02:48:30 PM »
Your builder owes you a new Kibler kit.

That's for sure and this proves there are people who can break an anvil with a rubber hammer.
None of this is Kibler's fault and that trigger is as simple as mine and I wonder how it got messed
up.
Bob Roller

Offline Ross Dillion

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2021, 02:53:15 PM »
Remember guys there are two sides to every story. The original poster said the rifle was 40% complete and he had run into problems. Was the rifle 40% complete or 40% hosed up?  What happened to the triggers? Was the stock cracked by driving a too tight ramrod into the hole/channel? I’d like to hear the “builders” side of the story.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2021, 03:33:59 PM »
Original posters have no obligation to engage in back and forth conversation. A situation was presented and questions asked. A number of suggestions were given. This isn’t a nail-biting, cliff-hanger mystery TV show like “Who killed JR?” The OP has plenty to work with and can make a private decision on a course of action.

Not sure why anyone would want to make a fellow member’s bad situation worse by being irritated with them.
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Offline wayoutwest

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2021, 06:50:42 PM »
Really appreciate all the helpful replies. I've been trying to figure out next steps here but all the insights have given me some perspective. Its true that the builder I used is not a professional gunsmith. I called several in the area (Front Range, Colorado) but none would take on the project. It is of course a risk to use a non-professional but I visited his shop and spent 6 hours working on the rifle with him. Based on my time with him I was fully confident that for the $500 I would pay him I would receive a completed and solid gun...

If anyone has any recommendations of long rifle builders who might take on this repair and refinish project I am all for suggestions. I still have the box the kit came in so I am willing to ship it if need be.

The top jaw screw was bent due to dry firing the lock, either by the gunsmith or you.

I have only triggered the lock when a flint was securely in place. When I handed the kit over it was in fine shape...


Remember guys there are two sides to every story. The original poster said the rifle was 40% complete and he had run into problems. Was the rifle 40% complete or 40% hosed up?  What happened to the triggers? Was the stock cracked by driving a too tight ramrod into the hole/channel? I’d like to hear the “builders” side of the story.

Completely agree about two sides to every story. which is why I didn't use harsher language and tried to remain fair. When I handed the kit over there were no issues whatsoever with the wood or the hardware. I decided BEFORE any real problems arose that this was just more than I had in me. Mostly due to the fact I don't have my own shop. I used a shared makerspace and had to pack up and unpack the entire project every day. I felt like I would ruin the stock at some point doing this. Before handing it over to the builder I had successfully fitted the butt plate, finished what little inletting there was for the triggers, lock, and barrel. Before leaving him with the kit we fitted the underbarrel lugs and sights together in his shop. The crack in the stock came from drilling the ramrod hole. He used a power drill on it...


It is for me a little bit irritating , that the OP apparently is not taking part on the discussion. But he only mentioned,  "an old retired Air Force dude who has built 20+ rifles and had 2 in progress when I went to his shop. " No gunsmith.

It seems not to be so easy to finish a Kibler Kit!
I have put together ten or more  spanish replica kits back in the 1980s. A little bit of sanding, polishing,  staining, blueing ....... that was easy to do!
But a Kibler Kit seems to require more skills! I wonder if my own skills would be good enough?

my apologies I didn't reply back immediately to all responses...To your point though, the builder did say the kit was much more challenging to put together than is suggested elsewhere, but it's my feeling he rushed through a lot of it without taking his time.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 07:09:39 PM by wayoutwest »

Offline Ken G

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2021, 07:46:18 PM »
Wayoutwest,

Very sorry to hear how much problems you are having.  You mentioned the builder had built 20+ rifles.  Were they muzzleloaders or modern rifles?  I hope he did not take a your money or at least gave you a serious discount. 
Maybe someone in the Colorado area from this forum can help you out.  Having to pay shipping to and from someone else is just salt in the wound for what has already happened.

Good luck,
Ken
Failure only comes when you stop trying.

Offline wayoutwest

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2021, 07:53:12 PM »
Wayoutwest,

Very sorry to hear how much problems you are having.  You mentioned the builder had built 20+ rifles.  Were they muzzleloaders or modern rifles?  I hope he did not take a your money or at least gave you a serious discount. 
Maybe someone in the Colorado area from this forum can help you out.  Having to pay shipping to and from someone else is just salt in the wound for what has already happened.

Good luck,
Ken

Thanks Ken. They were muzzleloaders, including full stock long rifles. He had 2 in progress carved from a blank stock that had already been inletted sitting in his shop. I think the issue here is he just went way to fast and wasn't used to the thin wood and meager tolerances of the already mostly finished Kibler kit. Unfortunately, he did take my money and is not willing to refund any, even though I've asked. He's offered to glue the stock, fix the triggers and fix the lock jaw bolt, but I'm wary...If there were a forum member near by or anyone had a referral for an established gun builder I might prefer that, even if it costs me more money...

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2021, 07:56:02 PM »
I suggest calling Jim Kibler and see what he can do.  His fee to assemble the kit is $600, if I recall right.  The finishing part could be done on the kitchen table by you.   Jim also has access to quality builders  who can be trusted. 

Betcha a nickel he is following this thread. 

Unfortunately, he did take my money and is not willing to refund any, even though I've asked.

I think it is appropriate to out him here and on other forums.  Maybe the moderator can comment.  Can you do yelp reviews to warn others?

The gun hobby attracts some individuals who are "off".  You found one.   They are often delusional about there skills and knowledge.  I see lots of really pathetic ML builds on other forums and from people who fancy themselves as ML builders.  This includes some who put themselves out as professionals.   I know of one in my area who is prone to grandiose thinking and narcissistic tendencies.  The ones who pose as gunsmiths and mutilate guns for unsuspecting customers really get under my skin. 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 11:50:29 PM by Scota4570 »

Offline Ross Dillion

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2021, 08:10:10 PM »
It’s sad that it was delivered to you in this condition and he still charged you $500. The last kit I assembled for someone was a cheap Spainish Hawken that turned into a complete nightmare. I made $50 on that one. Mainly did it as a favor for a guy I worked with. 

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2021, 08:53:44 PM »
If I was out there, I'd fix it for dat-gummed free.

Triggers, bolt, crack, touch up. done.

If it were my gun, I'd not even think about letting that fellow mess with it again. THAT he has experience with longrifles and buggered up a Kibler kit, and DELIVERED IT buggered up-- tells me to steer clear forevermore.  The time for him to fix things was before delivery.

The admonition that you'd "never get them back in" on the triggers just makes no sense to me.  But obviously I don't think like he does.

Hope some forum folks can help you out. Often those lessons we learn best are those we learn hardest.
Hold to the Wind

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2021, 09:45:48 PM »
I sent you a PM with pictures, I did the same thing on my SMR forestock, had a senior moment while I was sanding the ramrod down, easy fix.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2021, 01:14:39 AM »
ANY competent builder should be able to completely ASSEMBLE a Kibler SMR in about 6-8 hours.  Any builder knows a ramrod should be reduced to fit.
Don’t know how he messed up the trigger, but that’s not rocket science either.  The top jaw screw is definitely a rookie mistake.
Ok, rant over.  What part of the world are you located in? I’d fix it for you, gratis!
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Kmcmichael

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2021, 02:43:16 AM »
There is not much a easier than a Kibler kit. In fact I am worried that shooting it won’t be as pleasurable as assembling it.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2021, 04:34:16 AM »
KMc,
It will!
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2021, 05:01:43 AM »

Quote
I think it is appropriate to out him here and on other forums.  Maybe the moderator can comment.  Can you do yelp reviews to warn others?

Sorry, not here on ALR.
Dennis
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2021, 04:57:24 PM »
  Wayoutwest, sad that this person took advantage of you. But it now is a dead horse.
Like others have said the repairs are easy. But the stock crack should be fixed by someone that knows what there doing.
 You have a couple of options. You can contact Jim Kibler see if he has a replacement stock. A set of triggers. Easy repairs.
 Oldtravler
« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 04:33:33 PM by oldtravler61 »

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2021, 11:26:01 AM »
It is what it is. That’s more than likely going to be the gun you’re stuck with.  Doubt he buys you a new gun and I wouldn’t let him fix it.  If the amount of money you paid is worth your time and effort to get back,  you could take him to small claims court. I’ve seen several posts on here from mostly first time builders, just like yours. They are basically rookie mistakes.  Just bounce around here and search away on any issue you can think of or ask questions.  There’s a lot of people on here that have walked people through gun building from start to finish the right way.  Recreating The American Longrifle is a good book to start out with.  You need to pull the lock and triggers out to see what’s buggered up internally. 

Offline Curly Bean

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2021, 10:55:19 PM »
The Kimber southern mountain kit was easy to assemble and beautiful to look at. 

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2021, 02:00:15 AM »
The Kimber southern mountain kit was easy to assemble and beautiful to look at.
Hey here Curly Bean!
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2021, 02:00:42 AM »
It is what it is. That’s more than likely going to be the gun you’re stuck with.  Doubt he buys you a new gun and I wouldn’t let him fix it.  If the amount of money you paid is worth your time and effort to get back,  you could take him to small claims court. I’ve seen several posts on here from mostly first time builders, just like yours. They are basically rookie mistakes.  Just bounce around here and search away on any issue you can think of or ask questions.  There’s a lot of people on here that have walked people through gun building from start to finish the right way.  Recreating The American Longrifle is a good book to start out with.  You need to pull the lock and triggers out to see what’s buggered up internally.
Hey there stranger!
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2021, 04:22:39 AM »
It is what it is. That’s more than likely going to be the gun you’re stuck with.  Doubt he buys you a new gun and I wouldn’t let him fix it.  If the amount of money you paid is worth your time and effort to get back,  you could take him to small claims court. I’ve seen several posts on here from mostly first time builders, just like yours. They are basically rookie mistakes.  Just bounce around here and search away on any issue you can think of or ask questions.  There’s a lot of people on here that have walked people through gun building from start to finish the right way.  Recreating The American Longrifle is a good book to start out with.  You need to pull the lock and triggers out to see what’s buggered up internally.
Hey there stranger!

Hey Mike.  Sorry about being a stranger but,  my wife saw me building guns and evidently bought a home improvement business.  It’s run by her and I’m the only worker.   It only involves my house and all expenses come out of my bank account.  Hopefully if work slows down in the unusual business and my body don’t give out,,  I’ll get back into leather and guns.

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2021, 03:20:05 PM »
One of the few advantages of not having a wife.  Another is that if your dinner is burned, you have to go look in the mirror to find the culprit.

Wayoutwest, a day or two with Mike Brooks will set you on the right track.  He is a pretty fair builder and repairer.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2021, 05:27:19 PM »
Wayoutwest,

Sorry for the late reply and sorry for your difficulty.  We want every single customer to have success with our products, so if we can help, just let us know.  It's unfortunate you had a bad experience with the fellow who assembled your kit. 

All the best,
Jim

Offline hanshi

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Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2021, 09:36:06 PM »
It appears your "builder" is a fraud.  Moral behavior aside, he should replace the kit or refund your money to be remotely considered a builder.  The fact he warned you not to remove the trigger or trigger guard throws up a big red flag, IMHO.  Difficult to know what else is wrong.  What he left you is a "craps-shoot", and I'm guessing you don't shoot craps.

I would not try and fire the rifle in its present condition; it should be checked by a REAL ML smith before you do.  While it is likely salvageable it will take a professional or professional level ML builder such as are on this forum.  Good advice so far, and good luck.
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