.45 cal " A" weight swamped barrel

[bob in the woods]

 I was looking at various .45 cal barrels, and found that there are  some " A" weights being made.
I always believed that .40 was the largest cal. available in the " A" configuration.   Perhaps special order ?   Does anyone ave any experience with this profile in .45 ?    I think it would be prudent to solder all the lugs in place . Anyway, I'm intrigued, since it would make into a nice light rifle for my petite wife .

[Mike Lyons]

Rice makes a southern classic “A” weight in 50.  I thought rice had a barrel that was 46” in a 50 “A” weight but I don’t see it on his website.  Charlie Burton will make you whatever you want.  The others may or may not,  I’ve never asked them.

I do have experience with a 46” a weight in 50 by Rice and I like it.  I can’t remember if I soldered the lugs in the middle or not. I think I dovetail them. Math, research and a personal decision was made,  I’m sure.  Anyhow,  I haven’t had a blowout yet and it’s been shot a lot.

[Water Sheltie]

Muzzle loaders Building  Supply has a 36" Swamped Rice barrel in .45 , that's not a standard configuration, thought it'd make a cool little rifle.

[Scota4570]

"Does anyone ave any experience with this profile in .45 ?"

Yes, Jim Kibler's SMR.  The balance is wonderful.  I built one, was offered a lot of money for it, took the money , and regretted it.  I have another on order now.   The barrel is now 44" rather than 46' as before.  I think I'll like it even better. 

[Dennis Glazener]

The Rice Southern Classic  profile is a 42" A profile with less swamp than other A profile barrels (see below). They go as large as 50 Caliber. I have built several rifles with that profile, both 45 and 50 caliber. Used .025 deep dovetails then soldered them.  Both handle great. Probably prefer the 45 for off hand shooting.
Dennis

[R.J.Bruce]

Rice makes the 46" long, Honaker profile barrel in .45 caliber. It's billed as a S.V. Virginia style barrel from Pulaski & Wyeth Counties. Now West Virginia. It's an "A-weight" barrel that comes in up to .45 caliber. Dimensions are as follows. Numbers in parentheses represent the barrel wall thickness in .45 caliber with 0.016" deep grooves, and a groove diameter of 0.482".

Breech = 0.937" at 0.000" (0.2275")
Breech = 0.850" at 4.000" (0.184") +4"
Waist = 0.700" at 24.000" (0.109") +20"
Waist = 0.700" at 36.000" (0.109") +12"
Flared Muzzle {double-taper} = 0.760" at 44.000" (0.139") +8"
Muzzle = 0.900" at 46.000" (0.209") +2"

The Honaker profile is located on the Specifications Page 2 down from the Early Dutch Lancaster barrel.

Hope this helps.

Bruce

Just out of curiosity, is there a source for brass Honaker butt plates & triggerguards? I know that if you want to use a double set trigger, then it will have to be made from scratch because the Honaker family supposedly made their triggers differently from most other builders of the times.

Thanks

[dstock]

Rice makes a 45 cal 46"long A weight in the golden age profile. I  used one on a Tenn mtn rifle and have another waiting for a future build.
By all means solder the lugs on.

Thanks and God Bless
Doug B

[Robin Henderson]

Charlie Burton, as we speak, is fixin up one for me to build a lite rifle for my petite bride. It's a 36" A weight 45 caliber. Maybe you can catch him on the set up as it would possibly be favorable to turn out two at the same time. 

[bob in the woods]

Thanks everyone.  I never knew that there were so many light weight options out there.
One thing to keep in mind for the beginning builders is the importance of slowing the barrel lugs on these barrels. Even my standard A weight .40 cal Colerain barrel doesn't take much effort to bend
I had to remove the barrel from the gun and straighten it after a friend helped me load my stuff into my Jeep, jamming it against a box and then shutting the door on it 

[P.W.Berkuta]

I prefer a light weight barrel in .45 caliber for small framed people for general hunting and target shooting. One can get fatigued quickly toting around a heavy barreled rifle. Accuracy WILL suffer . As I become older I also like the lighter rifles.

[elkhorne]

Any of you guys that have used any of these thinner walled A weight barrels like Rice’s Southern Classic or Rice’s .40 Squirrel barrels have a preferred way you solder the lugs on? I was planning on using 0.030 or 0.035” brass and forming my lugs from that. One question I have is do you file a shallow “dovetail” or slot to set the lug down into for soldering of possible 0020 to 0.030”? Also what solder do you all prefer? I still have some “Fast solder” from Brownells but also some others. I also understand that you do not just heat the area wher the lug will go but all around the outside of the barrel where the lug will sit as you wait for the solder to flow. Is that a good assessment for technique? I have several I am going to have to do this with and am glad one I started at WKU a while back with the Southern Classic barrel never gave me enough time to cut/file in the dovetails especially in the waist area. Thanks in advance.
elkhorne

[TommyG]

I have been soldering my center/waist lugs on even on the heavier barrels.  I use .040 brass for the lugs.  Tin the lug, flux the location on the barrel and use a piece of thicker(.125")spring steel clamped to the barrel about 6" or so away from the lug to hold the lug in place.  Then heat the barrel, alternating side to side until the solder flows.  The same set up I use for fowler/smoothbore front sights.  I was using just regular solder and have had no problems.  Got some Force 44 from Brownells, going to give that a go on the next build.  One thing I do, not that it matters, is I remove all the oil from the bore with some alcohol before the heat

[sdilts]

No need to file a dovetail if you're soldering the lug. I use Solder-It paste solder. It's a silver bearing solder that melts at low temp. The flux is mixed in with the solder. Just squirt some on, clamp it, then put the heat to it. Super easy. You can find it at Home Depot.

[Dennis Glazener]

No need to file a dovetail if you're soldering the lug. I use Solder-It paste solder. It's a silver bearing solder that melts at low temp. The flux is mixed in with the solder. Just squirt some on, clamp it, then put the heat to it. Super easy. You can find it at Home Depot.

I do it to keep from having to inlet the base of the thimble in the bottom of the barrel channel. Just a bit of soft solder to strengthen the dove tails. I  use thin automotive sheet metal I saved from restoring my 57 Chevy years ago, plenty left! I think it .025 or .030" thick. Never saw brass used, guess some did.

Dennis

[kutter]

I just soft solder the lugs onto the bbl.
Saves all the dovetail cutting and fitting and plenty strong if the soldering is done right.
The lug base can be monster strong in it's size and attachment to the bbl. But the flange itself is usually thin by comparison and the hole thru it can be close to the edge of the matr'l.
Those later points are the strength the lug actually has,,not the bulk in it's base and extra mechanical attachment of the base to the bbl.

If you are unsure if a lug will hold if just soldered in place,,
Make a lug,,solder it to a piece of bbl (scrap or otherwise).
Then drill a hole thru the lug as if it was a regular stock pin hole.
Insert a piece of your standard  stock pin matr'l.
Then using the pin, pull on that soldered on lug and see if you can pull the lug away and off of the bbl surface.

You'll likely rip the pin matr'l thru the lug fin before the solder joint lets go if you've done a good job of it.

I use standard 50/50 or 60/40 lead-tin solder. Nothing fancy. Paste flux.
The Greenie tin/silver soft solder is rated a bit stronger but if you don't have any, you won't have things falling apart if you use the 'old' stuff.

I still use the lead/tin solder to relay ribs on double shotguns and double rifles. Never had any problems.
A good close fit of soldered parts is very important. Soft solder is not used as a crack filler and has no strength in that capacity.

[Mike Brooks]

I dove tail lugs into those barrels.  No balls, no blue chips.

[martin9]

I dove tail lugs into those barrels.  No balls, no blue chips.

Ha! I was hoping somebody with more "street cred" than me would say that. I've cut dovetails in 3 or 4 of the A weight .45 barrels with no problems. The dovetail in the waist is cut a little more slowly and carefully I'll admit.

[R.J.Bruce]

On the Early Dutch Lancaster barrel in .66 caliber, Jason machines the dovetail in the waist where the barrel wall thickness is only 0.073" thick. If it can be done by machine on a barrel with such a thin wall, then it should be possible to file shallow dovetails to set a soldered lug into on barrels with much thicker walls.

Honaker/.45 caliber/0.109" thick

[smallpatch]

Don’t remember which one I used, but Jason started out with an “A” weight 42”, .40 cal barrel, cut 3” off the breech, 1” off the muzzle, and made a great  38” barrel for my grandsons rifle.

[chubby]

Colerain makes a great a wt. 45 shoots very well!! 42"  Chubby

[martin9]

I love that colerain A .45. Faster twist than the Rice which is what I want in a .45. I'm building a southern rifle now with that barrel in a super curly piece of ash. Can't wait to finish it.

[R.J.Bruce]

Colerain makes a great a wt. 45 shoots very well!! 42"  Chubby

Scott also makes the .45 caliber in an "A" weight in the 38" long Early American pattern, as well as the 42" long Classic American pattern barrel. In the 42" long barrel, the gain twist starts out at approximately 1:81" rate of twist at the breech, and quickens to a 1:36" rate of twist at the muzzle. The rate of twist at the breech in the 38" barrel, will be slightly less, with the same 1:36" twist at the muzzle.