62 Rice barrels with Forsyth Rifling?

[Bsharp]

I am building a Box Lock with a Rice 62 cal barrel with a 104 twist.

It quit raining for a bit, so I tried some .620s and .010 linen with Hoppes #9.

The bore is .623 and groves are .637.

Very easy to load, all five shots.

I will say that the sun came out on the third shot. That is why it is to the right.

125FF is not mild, but very tolerable. Need to start some where.

For a loose fit, this is a promising start.

I have read of others on this board with Rice Forsyth barrels and was wondering what ball and patch combination that you ended up using?

[Badenpowell]

Well that certainly shows great promise. I did not know that Rice offered Forsyth rifling. I briefly owned a rifle by R.J. Renner with a Forsyth barrel, but never really had a chance to shoot it. Also bought a Forsyth-rifled barrel in .72 from the Oregon Rifle Barrel Company back home in Oregon and shipped them with walnut blank, lock, guard, triggers and buttplate to a gunsmith in Oudtshoorn, South Africa, to be built into an English Sporting Rifle.  Many years later, he still has the parts and I don't have the rifle.
May we see an image of your rifle? 

[R.J.Bruce]

Do you remember your conversation with Jason at Rice, by any chance? I'm curious as to why the bore diameter is 0.623" , and not 0.620"?

I also thought that Forsyth grooves tended to be at least 0.008" deep, and Jason has yours at 0.007" deep.

Do you know the width of the lands & the grooves? Does it have 7 grooves just like a patched ball barrel does?

Whatever, the barrel seems to shoot very well.

How do you think that that Forsyth rifling would work with a faster rate of twist? Such as 1 in 66"?  Or, 1 in 72"?

I am thinking about the 46" long, Honaker, S.W. Virginia profile barrel bumped up to a 1.108" breech with the .62 caliber Forsyth rifling & a 1 in 66", or 1 in 72" twist.

Thanks

[Bsharp]

Never talked with Jason, mine was part of a group buy.

I had 4 of them. the bores on three of them are .623, a.624 pin will almost start.

Just used the inside Micrometer on a barrel that was re-crowned.....[.639"]

So that is .008 deep.

104 twist.

[Dobyns]

The patches don't look cut, burned, or blown despite the thin patch and loose fit.   Maybe try thicker patches, linen or cotton, longer shooting distance, and various powder charges.....easy for me to say from behind the keyboard.

[Bsharp]

Does anyone have an online source for some .012 linen? even .013?

[Hungry Horse]

 I’ve always found real slow twist rifling to be much harder to find a truly sweet working load. The 1 in 48” and the 1 in 56” and 1 in 66” twists ( depending on caliber)seem to have the widest range of accurate loads. They also seem to be more tolerant with patch thickness. I have a .50 with a 1 in 72” twist rate that took me forever to find what it liked best.

  Hungry Horse

[little joe]

I got my linin from Burnley and Trowbridge
You can get swatch samples I believe.

[Bsharp]

little joe, do they have any that is .0012 or .013 thick?

[Daniel Coats]

I too have an R. J. Renner under hammer rifle in 62 caliber with Forsyth rifling. I've used powder charges up to 200 grains and never failed to hit anything I was shooting at it's a killer for sure. Never bothered to shoot it on paper but it does have a tang rear sight and seems capable of shooting great distances with tremendous power.

[Bsharp]

I too have an R. J. Renner under hammer rifle in 62 caliber with Forsyth rifling. I've used powder charges up to 200 grains and never failed to hit anything I was shooting at it's a killer for sure. Never bothered to shoot it on paper but it does have a tang rear sight and seems capable of shooting great distances with tremendous power.

Patch and ball size?

[Daniel Coats]

Don't recall exactly but it was not a tight combination. You can even use the harder cast ball with these slow twist rifles.

[Bsharp]

Using up some hard lead would be nice!

[R.J.Bruce]

There used to be a wholesale linen company named The Long Island Linen Company. It was located in New York City, I am not sure if on Long Island itself. They had all kinds of swatch sets they could/would send you in an envelope for a small fee. They only sold in bolts, and not directly to an individual like us. Considering the cost of linen, their prices, this was 7-8 years ago, were very reasonable for bolts of upholstery linen in the 10-15 ounce weight range. I never got around to trying to arrange a purchase through one of their retail customers, which was the only way they would consider selling such a small quantity ( bolts!) to me.

Before posting this, I went searching for the company, but failed to find any information on the internet for it. Which leads me to believe that I have the name wrong. I had the swatches so I know that a company existed, but all I could find was a Long Island Laundry Company, which has been in existence since 1928. The linen company, had been around even longer, because I had a very nice conversation with one of the original owner's grandsons.

Perhaps, someone with better search engines than I have in my phone can go looking for the company. Because, I swear, even with my old timers memory, that Long Island was in the company name.

Anyhow, I gave it my best shot. Back when I was serious about purchasing a lifetime supply of linen patch material, this company had the best prices in the United States.

[R.J.Bruce]

That's incredible looking rifling in that barrel. Was a group buy the only way Jason would take the time and trouble to make the Forsyth barrels?

[Bsharp]

Do a search for:

Long Island Linen fabric sales

then select 'Map'

18 of them show up.

[R.J.Bruce]

Bsharp

I was wrong about the name of the fabric company.

Old timers memory sucks!!

It's named Ulster Linen, and it's located in Islip, Long Island.

https://www.ulsterlinen.com

It's the same company that I dealt with back in the day.  I spoke to a woman named Yoselin who gave me the following information.

Her email address is yoselin@ulsterlinen.com

They did not sell to private individuals back when I spoke with them years ago, but that has changed, and currently Ulster Linen sells to the general public through its website.

A swatch book, priced at $58.00, includes samples of everything that Ulster Linen sells.

Swatch cards, with 10-15 samples per card, are priced at $4.00. This is what I sent for, and received, back in the day. A swatch card for the heavier weights of linen upholstery fabrics. If I recall correctly, the weights started at approximately 9 oz., and went up to approximately 17 oz.

Best pricing will be for orders totalling 55 yards, and greater. Average length on a bolt of upholstery weight linen fabric is 20-25 yards. Bolts may be purchased at 1/4 yard, 1/2 yard, and 3/4 yard lengths.

Of course, any length may be purchased if one is willing to pay the much higher cost at the single yard price.

Obviously, a group purchase is the best way to keep costs down. Back when I first contacted Ulster Linen I was working, and was going to just spring for a 55 yard purchase, figuring to sell some of the linen off to local seamstresses to offset the cost. This is first class fabric, with tight weaves, easily able to withstand the stress of being used for patching material.

Back in the early 2000's when I was researching linen prices, I spent several weeks online searching for the best pricing. This is the company I ended up with. I have no idea if it's still good information, but what I found out back then was that these people had established direct ties to the manufacturers in Europe back in the 20's & 30's that allowed them to import directly into the United States for less money than most other companies.

Edit: The 10th paragraph above should have read......

Bolts can be purchased at 1/4 bolt, 1/2 bolt, and 3/4 bolt lengths. Not yard as I wrote above.

[Bsharp]

R.J.Bruce,

Thank You, for your time and info.

I will save and use your information.

[R.J.Bruce]

Bye the bye, Ulster Linen only sells linen fabric, nothing else. So, if you call them, talk with them, or correspond with them via text/email/snail mail, these folks are going to know everything there is to know about linen. Unlike, a lot of the online discount fabric stores, where getting a truly knowledgeable person on the phone is a crapshoot.

[Bsharp]

I shot some pillow ticking, loaded tight, but not too tight.
125FF patch looked normal at 1520 FPS.[same POI as .010 thickness]
The 200FF patch was torn in half at 1830 FPS.[1/2" left, 1.1/2" low at 30 yds]
PT works, but the tighter weave and higher thread count should work better.
I have some 1/16 felt that I will have to try under the patch.

[Badenpowell]

With those velocities and that size ball, you are getting some serious muzzle energy. Is this a buffalo rifle you are building? Very intriguing.

[Bsharp]

This is a Big Game Rifle, like my motto, "Get Close and Wack'em Hard"

It is on the smaller side, but sill a large bore.

[Badenpowell]

Well I believe it will "wack 'em hard" indeed. Should be enough juice for anything in North America. 

[Bsharp]

Yesterdays test:

Just a 2 shot test.
Clean barrel and a paper cartridge.
The fit was a little loose, I am going to try 2 full wraps for a tighter fit.
You want it so that it just snaps in with a little thumb pressure.
Made a new mandrel with less taper for more powder.

[Bsharp]

Todays 2 shot target.