Christian symbolism on rifles

[Dan Fruth]

Looking for information either through this forum or in print regarding Christian symbolism on original 18th c rifles, and from the Lehigh area in particular. Thanks. Dan

[Hutch]

I would like to see some info on this as well.

[Dan Fruth]

TO ALL RESPONDERS: please only reply with facts and not editorialize the facts, or the admin will lock this important discussion...Thanks....Dan

[WESTbury]

Enter INRI in the search engine of this forum for one example.

[Hutch]

Enter INRI in the search engine of this forum for one example.

I'm not seeing much under that.  Still searching, maybe I'm doing it wrong lol!

[Eric Kettenburg]

Dan - Laurenz Kafka could certainly offer huge amounts of speculation and commentary; he's certainly written some articles for past KRA publications. 

Not editorializing, but you're asking about a "gray area" where much is open to interpretation.  A crucifix, or INRI?  Sure, no doubt there.  Then we get into stars, and carved lions, or lamb-head boxes, or other forms and symbols, and people can argue until they're blue in the face over meaning!

[mr. no gold]

There is one early, wood lid, patch box JP Beck rifle that has the 'INRI' inscription of the bottom flat of the octagonal barrel, near the breech. Just beneath that is a small cavity cut down into the wood of the stock that has the powdered remains of what is thought to be a flower. It is retained by a bit of foolscap over the cavity. Unfortunately, the gun has sling swivels and hence the barrel is not easily taken off the stock. The gun is thought to be a Rev War piece and it may be that the INRI with the flower was meant as a blessing to protect the owner. But, who really knows?
Dick

[Hungry Horse]

 I’ve seen scads of old muzzleloaders with crosses carved into the stocks, but not one that had a clear enough history to rule out Native American ownership at some time in the distant past. As for quotes from the scriptures, and references to chapters, and verses, from the Bible, I can only recall seeing such notations on modern muzzleloaders.

  Hungry Horse

[spgordon]

This is more like Christian stuff in the rifle, but: some years ago a rifle collector, perhaps somebody on this list, sent me a scrap of paper in very faded German script that had been found inside a rifle attributed to John Bonewitz. The paper was discovered when the owner removed the barrel.

Most of the words were faded but what remained read: “Im Anfang war das Wort, und das Wort war bei Gott, und Gott war das Wort. Dasselbige war im Anfang bei Gott.”

This is the beginning of the gospel of John.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I know of two lehigh area rifles that has little inscriptions like that found inside the hole bored forward into the box cavity wall.  Maybe there have been more, don't know, but I know of two first-hand.  I think that's why some of the old lehigh mafia  started calling those holes "prayer holes" although fwiw, I myself feel positive that they were just holes bored to keep a worm out of the way and from rattling around in the box.  And I've seen extremely old worms jammed in there as well, so once again, it's interpretational I guess.  I suspect the little rolled papers were put there by owners as opposed to the stocker, but of course, no way to prove it one way or the other.

[Dan Fruth]

Thanks for the direction Eric. I met a gentleman this weekend at the KRA who owns a Moll with the lion engraved on the box lid, and yes the hole bored into the head of the box cavity. I realized the hole was for a worm, even though I am aware of the holes bored over doors and windows of 18th and early 19th c homes to "keep out evil spirits" In this case, a piece of paper with a Bible verse is placed in the hole, and covered with either plaster or a sliver of wood glued over the hole.  I'm trying to see if there is any original documentation for the engraved lions, lambs, tree or vine of life, omniscient eye, etc. as being faith based. Speculation is fine, and I have my own opinions, but documentation would be helpful. I'll reach out to Mr. Kafka.....Thanks to all for the responses.

[Hutch]

Thanks for the direction Eric. I met a gentleman this weekend at the KRA who owns a Moll with the lion engraved on the box lid, and yes the hole bored into the head of the box cavity. I realized the hole was for a worm, even though I am aware of the holes bored over doors and windows of 18th and early 19th c homes to "keep out evil spirits" In this case, a piece of paper with a Bible verse is placed in the hole, and covered with either plaster or a sliver of wood glued over the hole.  I'm trying to see if there is any original documentation for the engraved lions, lambs, tree or vine of life, omniscient eye, etc. as being faith based. Speculation is fine, and I have my own opinions, but documentation would be helpful. I'll reach out to Mr. Kafka.....Thanks to all for the responses.
[/quote

If you hear anything post back here, I'm very curious as well!

[ScottNE]

I know of two lehigh area rifles that has little inscriptions like that found inside the hole bored forward into the box cavity wall.  Maybe there have been more, don't know, but I know of two first-hand.  I think that's why some of the old lehigh mafia  started calling those holes "prayer holes" although fwiw, I myself feel positive that they were just holes bored to keep a worm out of the way and from rattling around in the box.  And I've seen extremely old worms jammed in there as well, so once again, it's interpretational I guess.  I suspect the little rolled papers were put there by owners as opposed to the stocker, but of course, no way to prove it one way or the other.

I apologize for going on a slight, albeit relayed, tangent from the main topic, but are you aware of any rifles with symbolism that would serve a similar intent, but fall outside orthodox Christianity and stray rather into folk beliefs and superstition — a rifle with a so-called “witch mark”, for example?
Im bearing in mind that the question probably has no clearcut answer due to many apotropaic marks that incorporate Christian symbolism — the mention of a flower on one rifle is what got me thinking as flower patterns seem to have been viewed as a ward against witches in the old world at least.

[heinz]

Hutch,   I. N. R. I.   are the Latin initials for "Jesus of Nazarus, King of the Jews."     

I have always associated that inscription with the Jesuits, but it may have been more widespread.  Christian tradition has these initials placed on the top of the Cross at the crucifixion.

I know nothing about Moravian symbolism which would be needed for this discussion along with Anglican, Presbyterian, and Lutheran traditional symbolism.  The fish is an ancient Christian symbol and occasionally appears insmall inlays.

[Hutch]

Hutch,   I. N. R. I.   are the Latin initials for "Jesus of Nazarus, King of the Jews."     

I have always associated that inscription with the Jesuits, but it may have been more widespread.  Christian tradition has these initials placed on the top of the Cross at the crucifixion.

I know nothing about Moravian symbolism which would be needed for this discussion along with Anglican, Presbyterian, and Lutheran traditional symbolism.  The fish is an ancient Christian symbol and occasionally appears insmall inlays.

I did some research actually this afternoon and further confused myself.  I quick chat with my pastor and it's all making sense.  He was very confused by this whole topic actually.  I told him I guess the closest thing to modern day is like a Jesus fish bumper sticker lol!

Thank you for sharing as well.  I really enjoy all this stuff a lot.  History is becoming more and more one of my favorite subjects as I get older, mix in faith with it and it just gets better 😁

[gibster]

Here is a picture of INRI on the bottom flat of my signed N Beyer rifle.  It appears to have 3 crosses between each of the initials as well.



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[Mark Elliott]

Dan - Laurenz Kafka could certainly offer huge amounts of speculation and commentary; he's certainly written some articles for past KRA publications. 

Not editorializing, but you're asking about a "gray area" where much is open to interpretation.  A crucifix, or INRI?  Sure, no doubt there.  Then we get into stars, and carved lions, or lamb-head boxes, or other forms and symbols, and people can argue until they're blue in the face over meaning!

I have some notes in a .pdf from a Dixon's seminar that Laurenz Kafka gave on symbolism in longrifles.   If anyone is interested,  PM me with your e-mail address and I will e-mail it to you.   You might want to take it with a grain of salt, but I take it seriously.   I also do fraktur and it was full of symbolism having frequently been done by ministers.   I think some gunmakers would have also picked up some of that symbolism.   

[bama]

Dan without being able to interview the original builder how would you be able to tell what his intent was for any symbol he chose to put on his rifle. What has a religious meaning to me may not have any such meaning to you. I do know of two rifles that have what I call prayer notes that were placed in the barrel channel just ahead of the front lock bolt. These notes were written in old German. The current owner of one of these rifles was able to have the note translated. The translation was a bible verse if I recall correctly. I know that this is not a symbol but to me it is a pretty clear indication that the early German speaking smith’s were believers and it was important to them to place that belief into or onto their creation.

[Dan Fruth]

That is true bama, but with church records affording a good bit of info on these early smiths, along with the symbolism on their work, paints a circumstantial case for their faith, without actually having a first hand account. I realize not all stockers shared their faith on their work. I remember that Dickert was a faithful Moravian and  enjoyed serving the "love feast" at church, yet his work is void of any evidence of his faith. Then you have the Bethlehem and C Spring shops, N Beyer, several Lehigh rifles, and they reflect faith. My interest is simply to better understand the 18th C craftsman, and share what I learn with a fellow collector. 

[Tim Crosby]

 I did a search on Christian Symbols here on the ALR and there were some post, may be of some help. I tried to copy a link but couldn't.


  Tim

[Majorjoel]

Also note that there are a lot of these 18th century gunsmiths that are archived in various church records and they themselves along with their families are buried in church yard cemeteries.

[mr. no gold]

I am surprised that JPB Beck was left off of Dan's list since a number of. his guns were marked 'INRI:' more than any others that I have seen. Perhaps he  should be moved to the top of the list. A few of Beyer's rifles have that designation, (or is a dedication?), but I have seen only a few. Much of Beyer's work has strangely survived and  it would not be hard to find out some proportionality for that marking. With Beck, on the other hand, most of his work seems to have that inscription on the bottom flat. We assumed that it was done by Beck.
There are guns that seem to have 'aftermarket' Christian associated motifs carved or scratched into the stock or metal parts, but these don't seem to be common. So, more to the point, what are your expectations for such religious icons, or other associated identifications in the Long Rifle culture?
Dick

[Bob Roller]

Dan - Laurenz Kafka could certainly offer huge amounts of speculation and commentary; he's certainly written some articles for past KRA publications. 

Not editorializing, but you're asking about a "gray area" where much is open to interpretation.  A crucifix, or INRI?  Sure, no doubt there.  Then we get into stars, and carved lions, or lamb-head boxes, or other forms and symbols, and people can argue until they're blue in the face over meaning!

My personal conclusions are that every war and pain in the fanny of humanity can be traced to the religious opinions of men and I will listen to none of them.I trust Jesus Christ and leave the "religion"to any who want to contend with it.
Bob Roller

[Dan Fruth]

Mr no gold...I didn't mean to leave out J P Beck. Mark Elliot sent me his notes from a lecture by Mr. Kafka in regard to these symbols and the overall beliefs of the nation at that time. Mark may choose to post his notes, but it might cause this thread to be locked!

[WESTbury]

I've resisted posting this as it is not related to Longrifles, but my favorite obsession, Springfield Armory flint muskets.

During the photography for my book on the above, I found Masonic symbols stamped into the interior surfaces of the flint lockplates. After much research, I discovered a deep Masonic influence at Springfield at least from 1800 through the 1830's. Masons were involved in the management of the Armory, Col Roswell Lee, Superintendent, down through many of the foreman and inspectors. I've confirmed that forty plus of these individuals employed at the Armory.

As with the Beck rifles with "INRI" etched into the bottom flat of the barrel, the Masonic symbols on Springfield lockplates were hidden from view. Why, I do not know.