Author Topic: Hard Lead and Forsyth rifling!  (Read 5104 times)

Offline Daryl

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Re: Hard Lead and Forsyth rifling!
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2021, 10:07:21 PM »
That's a decent charge. I think perhaps I hold the gun a bit differently than Dan.
This is 140gr. 2F GOEX with a 482gr. ball in my .69 - the ALR 200yard postal match.
The last picture was taken at almost full recoil. The rifle did continue to rise another inch or two.




Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Hard Lead and Forsyth rifling!
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2021, 08:07:11 PM »
Recoil and BP. In brass suppository guns using BP, something I have extensive experience with, BP will produce about 20% more recoil for a given bullet weight and velocity than will modern grey powder. This can be documented by shooting or by reading the page in Cartridges of The World  containing the old Winchester catalog chart with velocity and recoil of  Winchester  cartridges with most BP cartridges being shown with both BP and grey powder loads.
Yeah its about brass suppository stuff but thats where the data is. Can’t be helped.
Thus with almost 2500 ft lbs of energy my big game FL rifle will make more recoil than will a firearm of the same ME using grey powder. So yes you get more recoil impulse with BP than with smokeless. Also note that the modern stuff will not upset a lead bullet to fit the bore as BP will.
It would be interesting to find out if a percussion rifle, which would in theory at least make more velocity with the same charge weight would produce a little less recoil at the same velocity. Since, with BP  percentage of the charge at the time of ignition becomes part of the projectile weight and even after the charge is burned there is significant amount to the charge that never burns left over solids from the combustion (think ash in a wood stove) that is ejected with the projectile.
Just for comparison my Don King FL Hawken makes 1764 ft lbs at the muzzle with 90-100 gr of FFF, depending on powder quality.
I might also point out that ME is not a valid measure of effectiveness on a game animal. Its really just a number.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Hard Lead and Forsyth rifling!
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2021, 08:17:42 PM »
That's a decent charge. I think perhaps I hold the gun a bit differently than Dan.
This is 140gr. 2F GOEX with a 482gr. ball in my .69 - the ALR 200yard postal match.
The last picture was taken at almost full recoil. The rifle did continue to rise another inch or two.





According to the bathroom scale the 16 bore weighs 9.7 pounds.
Maybe I am gripping the forend harder. Who knows?
IIRC with 5 drams of “Halls #2” powder Forsyth was getting about 1600 fps from my running his trajectories through a  computer some years back. I think he had a 26” barrel IIRC
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Daryl

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Re: Hard Lead and Forsyth rifling!
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2021, 08:31:21 PM »
I don't grip the rifle hard at all. Just a relaxed hold, pretty much.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Hard Lead and Forsyth rifling!
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2021, 05:02:45 AM »
I don't grip the rifle hard at all. Just a relaxed hold, pretty much.
I tend to just let it sit there but I might hold the 16 bore a little tighter but I don't shoot it much these days.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine