Author Topic: Kibler Colonial American (Read 5020 times)

RedRiverII · « **on:** July 08, 2021, 05:41:17 AM »

I was notified today that my 58 cal Kibler kit was going to be shipped to me. It was just about the eight week wait Jim Kibler quoted. This is my first black powder rifle of any kind. I have not even shot a black powder of any kind although when I attended a black powder shoot, some of the men offered their rifles to me to try. I declined. Terrific bunch of folks BTW. I'm not a new shooter in any other area of the shooting sports. I have collected most of the tools I need and am ready for my introductory BP rifle. I'm raring to go. Too bad I ordered a few Pfeil chisels from Woodcraft but they are still on backorder, and this is the second backorder delay. I may need to order another couple of chisels to make up for the missing Pfeils. Which brand would you recommend?

Frozen Run · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2021, 06:19:27 AM »

Ramelson palm chisels.

Nazgul · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2021, 11:06:39 AM »

Just finishing up my Kibler Colonial, my first. As others have pointed out, you don't need many chisels to complete this rifle, the inletting is superb.
I have several Pfeil and Ramelson palm chisels both very good brands. Maybe a small straight blade and a small V shape.
I would recommend a set of scrapers as well. I have the cabinet set and a Flexcut set.

In truth not a lot is needed.

Enjoy your kit, I am really happy with the quality of mine.

Don

Kmcmichael · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2021, 11:22:55 AM »

I have and used chisels on mine but could have done it with a sharp pocket or exactly knife knife.
I like Pfiel chisels but any chisel with which you are ergonomically compatible will work. One pays for edge holding capabilities with expensive chisels. The cheaper ones will only require more sharpening.

I really enjoyed putting my Kibler together.

smart dog · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2021, 02:59:46 PM »

Hi Redriver,
I truth, you could build it using one 1/4" flat chisel. I use palm chisels a lot because I have nerve damage in my finger tips making positioning full length chisels on the wood surface a little difficult but I also have very strong hands to use them effectively. Pfeil, Marples, Taylor all make good chisels.

dave

alacran · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2021, 03:14:27 PM »

I've never put together a Kibler kit, but I have examined a couple right out of the great box they come in.
Really I think from what I saw all that a person would need is a Jerry Fischer scraper, to do clean up all the inleting.

Blackthorn · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2021, 03:26:06 PM »

I worked with my first Kibler over the winter. I used the Fisher Scraper almost exclusively. There were very few times I actually needed a chisel. Inletting the barrel did require the use of a chisel but mainly for squaring up corners.

Good quality files are a must.

The most important tool I found I needed was a piece of pink eraser to replace the flint when working with the lock. I accidentally bent the top jaw screw while fine tuning the trigger when I tripped the lock.

RedRiverII · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2021, 04:46:34 PM »

Thank you men,

I remember the bent top screw mentioned in a thread Blackthorn. Hey Blackthorn any reference to Nobel House et al by James Clavell -? Thank you all for your help. Goody, now I can buy some Ramelson palm chisels. I do like collecting tools as I gave up thousands of dollars worth of tools when I retired. Mostly the big heavy equipment, but also many fine hand tools. I find it nice to buy small light weight tools today. I do not have any scrapers, so ditto to the above regarding buying more stuff.

I see we're tip toeing around a lurking dark hairy monster in the other room. I'm going to turn on the light and chase the boogie man away. The monster has a tatoo on his forearm with crescent shaped lettering above and below the image of a flintlock rifle. The top line reads Builders Rule" and underscored with "Assemblers Fear Them" I've seen first hand the tattoo, and experienced the intended effontery. Beginners/newbies like myself innocently use that word 'building' in reference to a KIbler or Chambers kit. We unknowingly challenge the pride of builders that have earned the title. We step on a virtual landmine set by the affronted. It forced me to understand why. I now do understand. Instead of being insulted I initiated a course of study. I no longer fear the monster, or the man behind the green curtain. The respect of being called a builder is an earned skill and worthy of praise. Building these firearms is an art form. Many of these folks are artists or on the road to becoming one.

Jim Kibler is the artist, and I am carried on his back in regard to building a longrifle. He has done the artistic form while I assemble the parts. I think the kits serve two purposes. One is I get a BP rifle. The second is much more detailed. All the questions I may wonder about have been answered for me, or solved for me. As a newbie I see a LR and it has a barrel, stock, sights, and a trigger. I never wondered about how the barrel stays in place nor how that nose was shaped. Do you mean that ramrod goes all the way into the stock? Clueless of the many complicated steps, until the desire to build one of these history loaded, American bred, articles of freedom was born.

You who often make the distinction between builders and assemblers should, in my view, state the facts clearly and gently so as not to chase away novices by snickered remarks. Personally I would like and enjoy more company in our sport/hobby. I'm having a difficult time locating a more knowledgeable builder in my area. More folks equal more interest that equals more business and more entertainment.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2021, 07:32:02 AM »

Red, everyone has to start somewhere, and "builder" or not, you have caught the powder smoke in your nostrils and are following it.

OK, your first build is a Kibler kit. Jim and his wife have found a niche that they can supply, and they do a darn good job of it. Never held a chisel against some beautiful wood and started it moving? Well, if you haven't, you've sure picked a great place to start. You may find that making a longrifle ain't your cup of tea, but you've acquired a jim-dandy rifle gun! With very limited experience, you have created a minor miracle, and bow your head to no man when you go to the range.

OK, so you really don't feel that building or assembling a period muzzle-loader is for you. That is OK, because there are a lot of guys out there like Mike Brooks. He makes a LOT of ML's for people who can't make them, and really turns out a quality product. And the same can be said for others like him - Mitch Yates, Richard Price, of St. Louis fame. And many, many others. After the kit from Jim Kibler, you will have a great idea of what makes a good longrifle, what goes into it, what makes it better or worse than the originals from the 18th and 19th centuries.

Chances are, however, that you will catch the bug that has infected more of us than even COVID did. And you may try another kit or two from Pecatonica, MLBS, TOTW, etc. And before too long, you will have acquired the skill (and tools) to make one from a plank, and what hardware to use for the particular longrifle that you really like.

You don't catch a fish until you drop the hook into the water, and, Redriver, I do believe that you are already caught. Enjoy the ride!

B.Habermehl · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2021, 02:35:53 PM »

Here’s a thought about a different approach. Make your own chisel out of o-1 or similar tool steel. Actually a rather simple process. My three or four most heavily used flat and skew chisels are home forged. I bet I don’t have a hour into each of them. Including making the handles. The learning curve is surprisingly short and fun. I too use mostly palm sized chisels. BJH

PS there have been multiple threads on tool making. Here on the forum. The search feature will help. If not ask. The only dumb question is the one never asked that results in a costly mistake.

RedRiverII · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2021, 03:52:26 PM »

Great idea BJH. where would I get steel like that? I quickly visited Hudson supply but $250 for a flat piece. Thank you for your suggestions. I'll go and check the forums on tool making.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2021, 05:23:26 PM »

I have been making mini chisels and scrapers out of concrete nails for years, I don't have a clue about what alloy they are but they stay sharp and and very hard after quenching. Be forewarned, making these tools is addictive, you can't make just one.

RedRiverII · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2021, 05:37:02 PM »

I'm sure you are correct Eric. I'm just about to accept a Kibler Kit and have bought a blank already for #2.

FDR · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2021, 05:51:06 PM »

Quote from: REDRIVERII on July 09, 2021, 03:52:26 PM

Great idea BJH. where would I get steel like that? I quickly visited Hudson supply but $250 for a flat piece. Thank you for your suggestions. I'll go and check the forums on tool making.

Try knifemaking supply houses for steel. Here are links to a couple>
https://knifemaking.com/collections/knifemaking-steel-and-metals
https://popsknife.supplies/collections/steel/01

Fred

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2021, 08:21:46 PM »

McMaster-Carr carries many types of steel and other metals. Delivery, for me, is always the next day.

rich pierce · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2021, 09:38:19 PM »

I’ve not had similar luck with concrete nails but am probably doing something wrong. I use 01 or W2 drill rod.

elkhorne · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2021, 06:37:47 AM »

RedRiver,
Gary Brumfield, an early Master Gunsmith of Colonial Williamsburg, shows on his website “flintriflesmith.com” has a section on tools and shows his chisels and gouges he made and used at Colonial Williamsburg on the website. Like Rich said, these all could be made out of some 1/4” square O-1 or W-1 tool steel you can get from McMaster Carr or MSC or several others. Hardwood dowels can be filed into great handles. Good luck!
elkhorne

RedRiverII · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2021, 10:17:14 AM »

On my way to the site, Thank you.

Badenpowell · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2021, 03:01:53 PM »

Thanks for the thread, Redriver. I am on my way to that site, too.

RedRiverII · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2021, 11:55:33 AM »

Finally was able to order from McMaster and Carr. 01 steel on it's way to me. Thank you.

RedRiverII · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:22:33 AM »

Kibler Colonial American due today, ready and willing for my first build.

Blackthorn · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2021, 11:18:41 PM »

The anticipation must be weighing heavy on you to just wrap your hands around the stock. I actually waited a couple of days to start just so I didn't get into a rush mode setting and then only worked on it Thursday evenings just to savor the build process.
Another suggestion for you. If you intend on doing any carving buy a couple of patch box covers and the carving stock from Jim. I found them invaluable for practice and for designs I wanted to try.

Bon Chance!

PS: "Blackthorn" comes form the wood used to make shillelaghs. Never though about Clavell's novels. I think in Shogun it is spelled Blackthorne

RedRiverII · « **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2021, 11:34:40 PM »

I did receive the crate today and am happy to report I do not intend to rush anything other than opening the box. I took a few pics, now let's see if I can post them correctly.

grouse · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2021, 02:41:05 AM »

Nice!! Lets get started!

RedRiverII · « **Reply #24 on:** July 23, 2021, 08:11:21 AM »

Do I need to be concerned with the opening on the side, should it be repaired, or just forget it?

I should say the Lock will be on the other side. The hole is through and through, that's not just paper thin, it's an opening. I don't know better or I would'nt ask.

News:

Author Topic: Kibler Colonial American (Read 5020 times)