Author Topic: My German Jaegers (Read 6000 times)

Chris_B · « **on:** July 11, 2021, 11:17:02 AM »

The short rifle was made by Johann Philipp Rosee around 1760-70 in Nürnberg.
The one in the middle is a little later, probably 1780‘s to 90‘s by Joseph Kuchenreuther II in Regensburg, of the famous Kuchenreuther family. It is equipped with what we call a Krüppelschaft (crippled stock) to fit a right-handed, left-eyed shooter.
The third rifle is signed HANS WOLF AICHINGER on the barrel. All I found on this man is that he died in Regensburg around 1653. I do not know if the rifle is really THAT old, it might be. Or there was a descendant with the same name? What I am pretty sure about is that AICHINGER was the owner, not the maker.

WESTbury · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2021, 02:02:40 PM »

Chris,

You have a great collection.

The iron mounted rifle, which you feel may be 17th Century, appears to be massive compared to the other two. How much does it weigh? Can you share any particulars on it and the other two rifles?

I have a pretty basic question, are these early German rifles easy to find in Germany or are they somewhat scarce?

Kent

Chris_B · « **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2021, 02:39:56 PM »

Kent, please tell me in particular what you want to know, I will answer it, if I can, but unfortunately do not have much Information about the rifles.
The iron mounted rifle looks a lot more massive than the others due to it’s very broad buttplate and stock, actually it is by far not as heavy as it seems to be.I will try to weigh it but actually lack the equipment ….
You find one of these rifles from time to time at an antique gun dealership or in the big auctions ( Hermann Historika had several to offer in their recent auction) , but they are far from plenty and usually high valued.
The source I purchased all three rifles from is an oldtime antique gun dealer with a fine instinct to find interesting old weapons who sells at reasonable prices

WESTbury · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2021, 02:55:50 PM »

Chris,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm just curious about basic characteristics on these, caliber, weight, etc.

Have you ever taken these apart, pull the lock and dismount the barrel? I'm a unreformed fixture and machine designer and I love to see what makes these old rifles "tick".

I have a Pa Longrifle by Graeff and I've taken it apart and took many photos of the underside of the barrel, the barrel channel, lock interior, etc.

Kent

Einsiedler · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2021, 04:38:58 PM »

Ausgezeichnet!!! Thank you for sharing!!

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2021, 04:43:18 PM »

These rate very high on the nifty-ness scale. The 3rd one is probably a early 1680's gun, quite a treasure..

Chris_B · « **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:14:05 PM »

Kent, I seldom put my rifles apart. I like the artistic beauty a lot more than being interested in techniques. Besides, I am a little clumsy sometimes and afraid to do these old things harm…

Here is some data:
Rosee: length 39,4“
Barrel length 25,3“
Cal .65
Weight ca. 7,5lbs

Kuchenreuther:
L 45,7“
Bl 31,5“
Cal 0,64
W ca. 7,7lbs

AICHINGER:
L 46,5“
Bl 31,6“
Cal 0,49
W ca. 6,9lbs

You see, the massiv looking old one is the one that weighs the less of the trio.

WESTbury · « **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:18:52 PM »

Chris,

Thanks for all of the information on your very fine rifles, appreciate it.

Kent

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:51:14 PM »

Thanks Chris, great to see them.
Dennis

Chris_B · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:58:11 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Glazener on July 11, 2021, 06:51:14 PM

Thanks Chris, great to see them.
Dennis

You already knew the Rosee, I could not withstand to add the other two

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2021, 07:01:05 PM »

Just out of curiosity, have they been demilitarized?

Tim C.

Chris_B · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2021, 07:50:07 PM »

Quote from: Tim Crosby on July 11, 2021, 07:01:05 PM

Just out of curiosity, have they been demilitarized?

Tim C.

Sorry Tim, I am afraid I don’t get you…
These are no martial arms

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2021, 08:07:29 PM »

Quote from: Chris_B on July 11, 2021, 07:50:07 PM

Quote from: Tim Crosby on July 11, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Just out of curiosity, have they been demilitarized?

Tim C.
Sorry Tim, I am afraid I don’t get you…
These are no martial arms

I have seen a couple that had a hole drilled on the barrel and a pin inserted so they could not be loaded. I was told they were done in the second quarter of the 20thc.

Tim C.

Chris_B · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2021, 08:25:53 PM »

Quote from: Tim Crosby on July 11, 2021, 08:07:29 PM

Quote from: Chris_B on July 11, 2021, 07:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tim Crosby on July 11, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Just out of curiosity, have they been demilitarized?

Tim C.
Sorry Tim, I am afraid I don’t get you…
These are no martial arms

I have seen a couple that had a hole drilled on the barrel and a pin inserted so they could not be loaded. I was told they were done in the second quarter of the 20thc.

Tim C.

This treatment was done to (military) arms made after 1871.
This date is a cornerstone in German gun laws due to the fact that in 1871 the first (metallic) cartridge gun came into official use. You usually need no special permission to buy and own guns made before that date if these are muzzleloaders, with a few exceptions such as double-barreled percussion rifles or revolvers.
So there would be no need to demilitarize rifles like the Jaegers, and I have never seen it done.
You were allowed to buy demilitarized weapons like Kalashnikovs and the like if they were federal inspected, but that changed a couple of months ago due to even more restrictive gun laws.

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2021, 08:31:03 PM »

Thanks you for the explanation.

Tim

mr. no gold · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2021, 09:14:39 PM »

Beautiful rifles Chris!!! Thank you for showing them here. There is nothing not to like about these works of art. Just beautiful and in superb condition.
Dick

Chris_B · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2021, 09:22:49 PM »

Thank you Dick.
The best thing about these rifles is they usually never saw the hard and long use the American Longrifles did, hence the good condition

lexington1 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2021, 10:06:12 PM »

Thanks for showing these. I absolutely love German guns. They are all beautiful, but I especially like the first one. It is almost an optical illusion with some of these really early German rifles that look like they are very cumbersome, but actually when you handle them are rather pleasing. Did you have any trouble getting them into the country? I've had mixed results getting these brought into the U.S. Some have made it here really quickly but I did have a Brown Bess that came from the UK and was held in customs for almost a month. I also bought a couple German guns from a dealer in New Mexico and was told that they had purchased them from a castle in Germany, but the German gov't would not release them for shipping until they had been paid a tax, and even then dragged their feet. That's third hand information, so take it for what it's worth.

Chris_B · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2021, 10:53:35 PM »

Since I am a German living in Germany there was no problem getting them in the country, because they were already here the same as I was

But as a German collector of American Longrifles I get your point!
Several people/dealers/auction houses refuse to ship to Germany, so I have to deal with an American broker AND a German broker, both earn money on me.
Then, and also if someone ships directly to me, I have to add about 25% of the items value AND the shipping costs for German taxes and customs fees.
And it takes weeks to months to receive a shipment from the USA.
To buy these German rifles without any taxes and getting them after a couple of days was a pleasure!
But I love Kentucky Rifles, so I will go on dealing with the hardships…

lexington1 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2021, 11:25:43 PM »

I didn't realize you were in Germany!

Mike payne · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2021, 03:16:33 AM »

Thanks for the pictures Chris beautiful rifles! I love jaegers and in the process of building one now. Your pictures are an inspiration! Thanks again.

Avlrc · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2021, 05:13:09 AM »

Great. Thanks for sharing. I had one very similar to your top one. I am always amazed at the condition of these rifles. They are such works of art.

Chris_B · « **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2021, 10:48:25 AM »

Quote from: Mike payne on July 12, 2021, 03:16:33 AM

Thanks for the pictures Chris beautiful rifles! I love jaegers and in the process of building one now. Your pictures are an inspiration! Thanks again.

If you need some detailed pictures for your project, please feel free to let me know

Ron Scott · « **Reply #23 on:** July 12, 2021, 04:05:31 PM »

Hi Chris,

Thanks for sharing the photos of your rifles. Trying to date and identify Germanic flintlocks can at times be very challenging. I have two Vienna flintlocks with Ottoman Damascus barrels. The barrels still retain the original Cartouche and silver inlay, suggesting they are repurposed barrels. One is signed Felix Meier and the other is unsigned.
Another Jaeger has a Spanish barrel dated 1719. This Jaeger has fully developed Rococo art, suggesting a latter date of construction. Again, no makers name.

Chris_B · « **Reply #24 on:** July 12, 2021, 04:43:30 PM »

Hi Ron,
in contrary to many American makers most of the German or Austrian gunmakers signed their rifles, sometimes (as with the Aichinger, at least this is my guess) with the owners name.
I have seldom seen unsigned Jaegers, sometimes there was just a cartouche, if not a name, or both.
Since in the European gild system there were often many men engaged in constructing one rifle, barrelmaker, gunstocker, lockmaker etc. , I really am not sure what parts of a rifle the "gunmaker" who signed the barrel really made.

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Author Topic: My German Jaegers (Read 6000 times)