Patchbox dovetail

[Craig Wilcox]

The Jaeger rifle I am building calls for a sliding patchbox cover.  Does anyone have a good method for cutting the dovetail slot in the stock?  Kind of timid cutting that little part out.  I do have a small router, but need some good advice.

[Mike Brooks]

The Jaeger rifle I am building calls for a sliding patchbox cover.  Does anyone have a good method for cutting the dovetail slot in the stock?  Kind of timid cutting that little part out.  I do have a small router, but need some good advice.

I cut mine with a chisel. I'd stay far away from a router for that job.

[Joe Stein]

If you are ambitious, you can try this:
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=5031.msg47553#msg47553

[Lucky R A]

     Cut em with a chisel like Mike says, then true them up with a good coarse triangle file.  Don't be afraid to cut a good deep dovetail, too many people cut skimpy shallow ones that just don't hold up..   It is easiest to make your lid in two pieces so you can see just how good the dovetail of your lid fits the stock.  Then make the top part mark and glue them together.   Ron

[Dale Halterman]

Peter Alexander does a good job of describing this process in his book "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" if you have access to a copy.

Dale H

[smallpatch]

Like Lucky says. Also, a slight taper from rear to front. To you get it close with a 3 sided file, use carbon paper to mark the high spots.

[Craig Wilcox]

Boy oh boy - such a plethora of absolutely great responses.  I often forget I have several tons of literature on how to do things - great reminder of the Gunsmith of Grenville County.

And I think my Mama would have told me to do as Mikey Brooks says, so a chisel and triangular file it will be.

The actual cover is a nicely chiseled cast brass German hunting scene, so the size and shape is already defined.  And I do have some scraps of walnut set aside for the p-box.

Really appreciate the great answers - Thanks

[bama]

Craig that cover casting is a pretty tough task to shape up at the dovetails. Mine was cast with a very generous amount of excess brass that had to be filed to shape. I did make this top in two pieces, as was the original per Ron Scott. The lugs inside the lid casting are meant to receive screws to hold the two, actually 3 pieces of the lid together. I realized this to late and glued everything together but wish I had installed the screws. I to use a chisel to cut the dovetails like Mike and Ron suggested. Good luck with the task, I am sure you will do well.

[tallbear]

I scrape mine in the rifle with a scraper and clean it up with chisels at the front.Fast easy and pretty foolproof.


Mitch



 

For the box itself I use this adjustable plane.

[smallpatch]

Mitch, you are such a show off!

[smart dog]

Hi,
I usually remove most of the the cavity first so I have less wood to chisel away but I didn't in this example.  I outline what will be the inner edge of the dove tail and then cut straight down to make a rectangular mortice.  Then I cut into the sides at an approximate 60 degree angle and clear the excess wood away.  Then finish up with a triangular file.










The lid does not have to fit precisely as long as it stays and slides against the butt stock with no gap.  If too precisely fitted, it will be locked shut on the first humid day.

dave

[yip]

 SMART DOG; EXCELLENT EXPLANATION!

[Bigmon]

I have a rifle project that this is the next thing I need to do and I have never done one before. It is intimidating to me.  You guys are really great craftsmen, with a lot of nerve.
Thanks for this info

[Craig Wilcox]

Seems I saw plans for that shaping plane just 15 min ago~ Guess Mitch was reading my mind.

Jim, my casting has a lump on the bottom, where the other side has a nice 60 deg. slope.  I'll get it straightened out.  I've sent the lock out for engraving - man's got to know his limitations, and engraving is one of mine.  And yes, saw the two blocks inside for screws, and recalled your discussion at the time.

Turning out to be a lot of fun, this Jaeger.  Probably have to whisper to it in German when the buck steps out of the treeline in front of me. "Ach, Liebchen - -  Shoot, dang it, shoot!"

[Craig Wilcox]

Dave, that is about how I envisioned doing it, making a flat floor at the bottom of where the dovetail is, then cleaning out under the edges.  Going deeper should be no problem after getting the joints right.

[Not English]

I do as Lucky and Smallpatch, I use a 3 square file. Judging by the photos, the only thing I do different is what I do to my 3 square file. I grind a safe flat on the file and grind the tip square to the sides until the teeth go all the way to the end. This will not only file a profile, but it can also be used as a scraper. You'd be surprised how well it works on hard maple. It's pretty rare when I grab a chisel.

Dave

[RichG]

muzzle loaders builders supply makes a scraper that you put into a wooden handle for cutting /scrapping out the dovetails. use for lid and box , super easy. Can't remember what I paid , but wasn't much. give him a call easy to do business with.

[rich pierce]

I like Mitch’s scraper. I think I will make one like this.

[elkhorne]

Craig,
Do like these guys have suggested but for your first one, make one on a piece of scrap maple to get the feel of doing it. Then if you mess up, you can learn to correct it without trashing a good stock. Just my thoughts and what I'm going to do for one I have to do. Good luck and will pm you.
elkhorne

[Curtis]

Take a slim taper three corner file and grind a chisel point in the end.  Use the same tool to chisel or file the dovetails in, makes short work of cutting the dovetails.

Curtis

[Eric Kettenburg]

I do them exactly like Dave's photo series above except I hog out the mortise first so there's much less wood to deal with.

[L. Akers]

I was, like Bigmon, even though I make furniture with dovetails , intimidated by the thought of chiseling a 4-5" dove tail in a stock so I came up with a different way.  Like many, I make the lids of two pieces with the dovetailed piece starting about 1/8" less in width than the top and 1/4" thick.  I strike lines at each side of the bottom piece starting at the rear corners and angling slightly inward at the forward end.  I set my bandsaw table to about 15 degrees and just kissing the scribed line with the left side of the blade carefully saw off a wedge-shaped piece from each side.  The wedge piece must be on the left side of the blade when cutting.  After smoothing the kerf marks hold the cut-offs back on the parent piece and measure the width.  This is the width of a mortice to cut in the stock the depth of the dovetail piece.  Mark off 1/4" inside each line and this delineates the width of the cavity.  A  1/4X1/4" rabbit will be left on each side.  Glue the cutoff pieces into the rabbits (careful with orientation) and you have perfect fitting dovetails.

I showed the first one I did, back in the 80s, to a very knowledgeable friend with the comment that I had cheated on the dovetails.  He went to his basement and returned with a jaeger rifle that dated from the early 1770s which he handed to me and told me to remove the patchbox lid.  I did and there were the tell-tail glue joints.  The dovetails were done using the method outlined above.  So I was HC after all and hadn't cheated.

[Craig Wilcox]

Thank you again, all, and Mr. Akers, thank you for the details.

I do have quite a bit of walnut to practice on.  It's not as daunting as I though just a week ago.

Just about ready to cut the butt at my desired 13 1/4" LOP.  Sure have a lot of wood to rasp off, my new rasps should be here in 7-10 days now.

[RedRiverII]

Wery interwesting,  but I'm shtupid.  Very cool idea Mr. Akers thank you.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I was, like Bigmon, even though I make furniture with dovetails , intimidated by the thought of chiseling a 4-5" dove tail in a stock so I came up with a different way.  Like many, I make the lids of two pieces with the dovetailed piece starting about 1/8" less in width than the top and 1/4" thick.  I strike lines at each side of the bottom piece starting at the rear corners and angling slightly inward at the forward end.  I set my bandsaw table to about 15 degrees and just kissing the scribed line with the left side of the blade carefully saw off a wedge-shaped piece from each side.  The wedge piece must be on the left side of the blade when cutting.  After smoothing the kerf marks hold the cut-offs back on the parent piece and measure the width.  This is the width of a mortice to cut in the stock the depth of the dovetail piece.  Mark off 1/4" inside each line and this delineates the width of the cavity.  A  1/4X1/4" rabbit will be left on each side.  Glue the wedge pieces into the mortices (careful with orientation) and you have perfect fitting dovetails.

I showed the first one I did, back in the 80s, to a very knowledgeable friend with the comment that I had cheated on the dovetails.  He went to his basement and returned with a jaeger rifle that dated from the early 1770s which he handed to me and told me to remove the patchbox lid.  I did and there were the tell-tail glue joints.  The dovetails were done using the method outlined above.  So I was HC after all and hadn't cheated.

Now THAT is some interesting stuff!  I've seen quite a few glued lids, but never seen what you describe.  Pretty interesting!