Author Topic: fire bluing long rifle parts  (Read 1809 times)

Offline borderdogs

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fire bluing long rifle parts
« on: August 11, 2021, 05:58:26 PM »
Hi Guys,
I remember seeing a fire blue process Mike Brooks and Wayne Estes were using on some of the rifle parts used to build the Kibler rifles in their class. I am very interested in using this process on the parts I am using on my current rifle build. I am probably going to blue the barrel and have been tempted to color case harden the breech and thought about just sending all the parts out for the same process but read that color case hardening will change dimensions and I don't want that. Then I remembered the treatment used in their class and I liked the results and thought that might be an option. I experimented doing this on a spare tang and lock plate the lock plate came out ok except part of it turned black. The tang turned color but only on part of it the rest was black. I tried the process on some screws and they came out ok. I cleaned the parts with acetone after polishing to 400 grit and I assume I am either not heating the part correctly or maybe I need to rethink the cooling process. I  just let the parts air cool.

So I am wondering what I am missing if there is prep I need to do prior to doing this. I would be interested in hearing more detail on this procees.
Thanks,
Rob

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2021, 07:06:15 PM »
Hi Guys,
I remember seeing a fire blue process Mike Brooks and Wayne Estes were using on some of the rifle parts used to build the Kibler rifles in their class. I am very interested in using this process on the parts I am using on my current rifle build. I am probably going to blue the barrel and have been tempted to color case harden the breech and thought about just sending all the parts out for the same process but read that color case hardening will change dimensions and I don't want that. Then I remembered the treatment used in their class and I liked the results and thought that might be an option. I experimented doing this on a spare tang and lock plate the lock plate came out ok except part of it turned black. The tang turned color but only on part of it the rest was black. I tried the process on some screws and they came out ok. I cleaned the parts with acetone after polishing to 400 grit and I assume I am either not heating the part correctly or maybe I need to rethink the cooling process. I  just let the parts air cool.


I have never hear of color case hardening changing the dimensions of anything bit the process can warp a lock plate.
400 is a start but there other grits that go way beyond that all the way to the 4/0 polishing paper I sometimes use.
I got mine from a vendor at a flea market years ago.It is a 3M product so you might have to go"online" to see if it;'s still available.To get to this point after starting with the 400 you can get much fine grits at any good car parts shop like NAPA.
To get the deep blues takes a lot of prep work and I used to fire blue a lock plate and cock and the pan cover of a frizzen on a "once in a while" basis.
Bob Roller

So I am wondering what I am missing if there is prep I need to do prior to doing this. I would be interested in hearing more detail on this procees.
Thanks,
Rob

Offline Hutch

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2021, 04:29:49 AM »
I'm curious to see this process as well!

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2021, 04:57:01 AM »
Let me recoup from this weekend and I’ll tell you what I know.
Stop Marxism in America

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2021, 03:35:02 PM »
I'm curious to see this process as well!

It is labor intensive one step at a time until you find the level of "bright" needed and on parts like cap lock hammers
and other things like the external parts of a flint lock it will take  time.The various abrasives should or must be backed
by tools that allow following the contours of whatever is being polished such as the curved flash fence of some flintlocks.
It is a repetitive process starting with coarse cloth and ending with extremely fine.Power polishing can be of help but only
in a limited way and must be used with caution.It's a learning process so enjoy the ride ;D.
Bob Roller

Offline borderdogs

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2021, 12:05:32 AM »
Thanks for the responses I appreciate the advise Bob
Rob

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2021, 01:14:56 AM »
I can heat blue small parts very reliably in my heat treat oven.   I set the temp for 560F which results in an actual 560-580F in the oven.   The part needs to be polished bright, at least 600 grit, and de-greased.   

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2021, 01:42:58 AM »
The triggers I finished today were polished to a mirror finish and they came out fine in the case hardening process I use which rates up there with the stone axe as far as methods are concerned.I started with 500 paper and then went to 2/0 which seems to do as well as the 4/0 I mentioned before.
Bob Roller

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2021, 07:18:08 PM »
I can heat blue small parts very reliably in my heat treat oven.   I set the temp for 560F which results in an actual 560-580F in the oven.   The part needs to be polished bright, at least 600 grit, and de-greased.
Years ago I got a caplock plate and hammer to the bright luster of a chrome bumper and then wiped them with a terrycloth
wash cloth that was lightly coated with sperm oli.I slowly heated them with a wide  angle tip on a Bernz-O-Matic torch and got a very deep,dark beautiful blue like used to be seen on unfired Civil War Remington revolvers. I assembled the lock and can't say how durable that finish was but it held up well on those old 1858 vintage handguns.
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 07:26:20 PM by Bob Roller »

Offline flatsguide

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Re: fire bluing long rifle parts
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2021, 02:36:33 PM »
A few things that I have learned about polishing over the years that I would like to pass on are the following.
A lot of parts, cast and machined can be filled to finish shape. Think of file as the “starting grit” of polishing. I generally finish with #4 then #6 cut files.
Cleanliness, clean up the immediate area and backing blocks when changing to finer grit.
A lot of “polished” work one sees is generally poorly done, not so much for lack of skill but lack of what to look for. One generally sees lots of fine scratches in a highly bright parts...it is easy to miss seeing a 360 grit scratch when working with 400 grit paper. By the time you get to 500 or 600 grit paper you start to see the 360 grit scratches, then, if you want to remove the 360 grit scratch you need to go back to the 400 paper. The way to avoid this is to vary the angle of your polishing strokes. As an example on a lock plate, that is in good shape overall, let’s say you are starting out with 220 grit paper that is backed with a piece of wood shaped at one end so it will not dig into your palm, the other with an angled flat sanded or filed on it. Start diagonally polishing on the plate and vary stroking  from 45* +or- one way then 45* +or- the other way. When finished with the 45* polishing, polish fore and aft until all of the 45* marks are removed. Look close for the 45* marks then look closer. Your personal level of OCD will tell you when it’s “good enough “. Then clean up and start with the next finest grit, alternating with 45* strokes until all of the fore and aft marks from the previous grit is gone. Look close! Use this technique of finer and fine grits till you reach the level of polish you desire.
It is false economy to try and save paper by using it to “death” , develop a feel for what the new paper feels like when it starts to cut, when you don’t feel it cutting any longer, cut a new piece or re-position it.
Use thin “rubber” gloves and use some lubricating oil like , diesel fuel, kerosene or a commercial product that companies sell....try Gesswein.
Clean up well when going to finer grits.
For some curved surfaces you can glue a thin hard rubber back to your sanding block. By block I mean any shape that you may want to use to back up your paper. There is a fellow here that admits in the wee dark hours of early morning he uses his fingers as a sanding block. He know the importance of sanding blocks...don’t use them then and you will get seasick from the waves and whoop-de-doos from a “flat” plate.
Then there are polishing stones....
And as Bob Roller said....It’s a learning process so enjoy the ride.
Cheers Richard
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 02:50:03 PM by flatsguide »