Inclement weather - cows knees

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Does everyone use a cows knee to keep their flintlocks dry in rainy weather?

I'm just curious if a cows knee is just a given when hunting with a flintlock, or if it's something that is employed when a lock is not properly designed.

I've tried greasing the edge of the pan & frizzen, but when I start stomping through damp brush, I'm sure to get a misfire.  It seems that the brush is the killer.  A little snow or rain isn't too bad, but start walking through brush that has snow, dew, or rain and the pan will get damp.

I've been careful to keep pan clean, I even use 2f for priming.  But without a cows knee I'm sunk.  Yet I hate the blasted thing.  It's a pain to deal with when preparing for the shot.  And when the weather is nice it's a pain to lug in the possible's bag.

[Darkhorse]

I use one everytime I go hunting. Mainly for keeping the heavy dew out of the lock. It's also another layer of safety when pulling the rifle up a tree or transporting on a ATV.
When real rain is in the forcast I just take a centerfire. To me, deer hunting comes first, using a flintlock is just a bonus.
When I remove it I just roll it tight and tie. Not a hassle at all.

[M Tornichio]

I use a cows knee. just leave the rear thongs loose so that when a deer jumps up or what ever you may be hunting. It allows you to quickly rotate the knee off to the side for the shot. This is accomplished quickly if it is on loose. I would hate to carry one in a bag also, I just tie mine to the back side of my hunting pouch strap. The thing that I have not been able to avoid though after a shot if you keep hunting and put the knee back on. the rifle will rust. I have not been able to avoid it. My rifle that was originally rusted and rubbed way back to a grey color is slowly going back to a brown color because of the rainy deer season we have had here in ohio the past couple of years.
The knee really seems to help when you are on the move.
Good luck,
Marc

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Am I mistaken then in thinking that a properly made lock would eliminate the necessity for a cows knee?

[Tom Currie]

Yes, A cows knee will keep your lock dry. A well engineered lock will fire in the rain if your powder is dry, but it is an external ignition system and if it rains hard enough or enough water gets to it like from bushes like the guys mentioned, It won't.

[roundball]

I use a Leatherman cows knee as a lock protector when walking in and out of the woods in the dark, regardless of the weather...put it in my pocket when I start hunting.

I use 4F prime and on rainy days the air itself is so saturated...very high humidity...that I reprime every 30 minutes or so, and I've found it much easier for me to just keep the lock up under my jacket/rain gear rather than bother with a cow's knee...not convinced one would completely seal out high humidity anyway.

Just how I do it...

[elk killer]

if its raining and or snowing..i take a tooth pick and place it in the touch hole..then close the frizzen,,
if i see something to shoot i just remove it,,wipe the pan and prime with 3 fff..
only carry one horn

[northmn]

Am I mistaken then in thinking that a properly made lock would eliminate the necessity for a cows knee?

I have yet to see one.  An original rainproof English lock was said to be tested by priming it an holdin it in bucket of water for a time with the thumb over the end and then seeing if it will ignite.  None of my copies are that tight.  I not only would put a cows knee over the lock if the rain came up but do my best to block the rains with my body.

DP

[Candle Snuffer]

Does everyone use a cows knee to keep their flintlocks dry in rainy weather?

I'm just curious if a cows knee is just a given when hunting with a flintlock, or if it's something that is employed when a lock is not properly designed.

I've tried greasing the edge of the pan & frizzen, but when I start stomping through damp brush, I'm sure to get a misfire.  It seems that the brush is the killer.  A little snow or rain isn't too bad, but start walking through brush that has snow, dew, or rain and the pan will get damp.

I've been careful to keep pan clean, I even use 2f for priming.  But without a cows knee I'm sunk.  Yet I hate the blasted thing.  It's a pain to deal with when preparing for the shot.  And when the weather is nice it's a pain to lug in the possible's bag.

Rather then using grease, use beeswax to sill the pan.  'Rain Gutter' locks such as the L&R Durs Egg, John Bailes, Bedford County, late 1820 Ketland's, Manton & Ashmore locks are good examples of how flintlocks progressed to try and make them waterproof.  I personally do not feel there is such a thing as a waterproof lock, only reasonable steps you can take to try and make the lock as waterproof as possible.  The cows knee is not a bad idea, though with a little engineering you can do something similar with a piece of leather that would work best for you and your hunting conditions. 

[Dphariss]

Does everyone use a cows knee to keep their flintlocks dry in rainy weather?

I'm just curious if a cows knee is just a given when hunting with a flintlock, or if it's something that is employed when a lock is not properly designed.

I've tried greasing the edge of the pan & frizzen, but when I start stomping through damp brush, I'm sure to get a misfire.  It seems that the brush is the killer.  A little snow or rain isn't too bad, but start walking through brush that has snow, dew, or rain and the pan will get damp.

I've been careful to keep pan clean, I even use 2f for priming.  But without a cows knee I'm sunk.  Yet I hate the blasted thing.  It's a pain to deal with when preparing for the shot.  And when the weather is nice it's a pain to lug in the possible's bag.

Rather then using grease, use beeswax to sill the pan.  'Rain Gutter' locks such as the L&R Durs Egg, John Bailes, Bedford County, late 1820 Ketland's, Manton & Ashmore locks are good examples of how flintlocks progressed to try and make them waterproof.  I personally do not feel there is such a thing as a waterproof lock, only reasonable steps you can take to try and make the lock as waterproof as possible.  The cows knee is not a bad idea, though with a little engineering you can do something similar with a piece of leather that would work best for you and your hunting conditions. 

I can put priming in the pan of the "Manton" lock on the 16 bore and hold my thumb over the open end of the pan and immerse it in water in the kitchen sink. Remove it and the powder will be dry. Unless the frizzen is wiped dry it will not spark, however. But the lock is  reasonably waterproof. I spent a couple hours or more filing and scraping to get it that way. I am not sure its possible with a non-waterproof pan design. These are much harder to fit.

I would not bother with a cows knee. A greased leather cover is much better and I doubt its anymore trouble to get off. Since the water proofing, sno-seal or such stiffen the leather and make it less likely to hang up on sights etc. I like this. I consider a cows knee completely impractical raising the question "Where do I put it when its not on the gun?"
I can loop a case through my belt to wrap it around my waist.
Dan

[smokinbuck]

A friend of mine had an original West Virginia flintlock that had a cows knee with it. It was form fit over the lock and was held in place by friction. You had to spread the bottom to slip it on or off. The leather was hard, probably from age, and had been greased.
Mark

[AZ Longrifle]

I bought one from Track and I live in AZ where it only rains about 6" a year!
Sonoran Desert is awfully dry. But, it'll be my luck that the day I go for a hunt,
it'll rain.

[Long John]

I hunt New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey.  I have a cow's-knee lock cover that I use when it is snowy or rainy out.  Cow's-knees vary immensely in desing depending upon who the maker is.  Mine slips on an off quickly, quietly and hangs from a thong tied through the TG rail.  It is made of greased leather and I keep it closed with a turkey wingfeather quill.

I wouldn't dream of buying one!  I have never seen a commercially made cow's-knee I would give 5 cents for.

Best Regards,

JMC

[Ben I. Voss]

Long John - how about a picture of your cover? I'm interested in making my own.

[Walks with Fire]

I use a flintlock cover made with a piece of new car wash shammy leather which is greased with SNO-Seal boot waterproofing. Use a new piece of shammy or it won't be nearly as pliable. Cut it to the size you want and it will form to your lock like a glove. If any of you try this I know you will like it. I never have concerns of whether my flinter will fire regardless of how hard it rains or how wet the brush is.

The problem in rain is reloading after you shoot once. If you can find someplace that you can clean and dry your rifle it's not a problem. I clean and dry it with denatured alcohol under a pine tree or something and I am good to go. In wet weather one must remove all fouling before loading the next ball or the fouling will atract moisture.

My flinters are also glass bedded in the barrel channel so there is nowhere for water to travel down the barrel channel. One could grease their barrel where it fits in the channel with the Sno-seal product and would help prevent water traveling down the barrel channel. Sno-seal is a beeswax type of product. Warm the article you are applying it to and it flow quite well. Wet weather and flinter problems will be a thing of the past.

Another thing I sometimes use is a strip of electric tape over the frizzen which can be removed very quickly and easily when hunting. It works just like a hammer stall would and I use it mostly in dry weather as a prevention from accidental discharge from the hammer getting banged into the frizzen.  I fold the end over at the top of the frizzen making a little tab that I just grab and tear off to shoot. It also assures that your frizzen is bone dry.

I don't concern myself with fast shooting when using a flinter; my concern is that it will fire everytime I drop the hammer. If I am hunting and I see game I wish to shoot at then I loosen the lock cover but leave it over the lock. When I get ready to shoot i just lift it off and put it in my pocket and fire. If it's raining real hard the cover I described above will also mold enough to be able to use your sights with it stll covering the lock. Just pull the hammer back; mold it to see the sights and fire. I also use electric tape over the muzzle to prevent snow or water from entering the barrel. I just shoot right thru it.

[Long John]

Walks,

You comment about sealing the barrel channel is CRITICAL.  Every rifle I build I use a mixture of bears grease and bees wax to exclude all the air between the barrel and the stock.  Otherwise the crack between the barrel and the stock acts as a wick and through capillary action with GUARANTEE that you get water up into the pan.  The thinner the crack the more powerful the capilliary action.  For reliable wet weather hunting the barrel channel must be filled with a grease moisture barrier from end to end.

Also, keeping the lock under your arm pit or under your coat is a bad idea.  The perspiration moisture from your body will flow across the gun lock. But the gun lock is next to the barrel and the barrel is a relatively good conductor of heat (and cold) and it is sticking out in front of you in the cold air and rain, keeping it cooler than your body.  Hence moisture from your perspiration will condense on the barrel and gun lock if you keep it next to your body, resulting in a damp prime.

I will make a photo of my cow's-knee tonight.

Best Regards,

JMC

[Walks with Fire]

Long John;

Try the version of lock cover I described and I am sure you will like it. The thing is it's so pliable and waterproof even in freezing weather. Glass bed the barrel channel with Accu-glas and coating the barrel with a little Sno-seal and water problems are a thing of the past. My rifles are TC's so it's easy to do and easy to clean after the hunt as well.

I have to feel sorry for some of the people that I hunt with from time to time because they just don't or won't take the steps neccessary to keep their guns in condition for wet weather. Last year we put on some drives in really wet snow. There was snow on the brush and was snowing big wet snowflakes. Most of the guys guns were wet and frozen and they were as well. They couldn't get them to fire at the end of the hunt. I was dry and so was my rifle. This happens year after year and I try to offer suggustion that goes without change year to year. I guess from now on I won't comment unless asked.

I have posted about this several times every year and I have yet to see anyone who has actually tried it.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Walks,

I use a leather lock cover.  I guess I should have put the phrase "cow's knee" in quotes because mine is not truly the knee of a cow.

Mine works similar to what you describe with your chamois lock cover.  I grease it up good with sno-seal as well.  The only difference I can imagine is that mine is thicker leather so it has to come off entirely to shoot.  Your chamois idea might be nice to try since you can shoot with it on.

...I've never had a problem with snow and rain getting down the bore and contaminating the powder.  I use tallow for patch lube and for the last few years I use a tallow "grease cookie" between powder and ball.  This seems to keep all water from entering via the bore, as well as allows me to shoot and reload indefinitely without swabbing.

My leather lock cover works well enough at keeping the priming charge dry.  I just don't particularly care to deal with it if I don't have to.  Plus I read from time-to-time of hunters that put a little grease around the pan and such to keep moisture out.  I never really understood if this practice was in lieu of a lock cover or in addition to a lock boot.

[roundball]

Also, keeping the lock under your arm pit or under your coat is a bad idea.  The perspiration moisture from your body will flow across the gun lock. But the gun lock is next to the barrel and the barrel is a relatively good conductor of heat (and cold) and it is sticking out in front of you in the cold air and rain, keeping it cooler than your body.  Hence moisture from your perspiration will condense on the barrel and gun lock if you keep it next to your body, resulting in a damp prime.

Interesting theory but hardly "a bad idea"...

It's been my MO with Flintlocks for the past 10 years...I use 4F prime and refresh it every 30-45 minutes regardless of the weather...laying across my lap in clear weather or up under my rain gear when raining...doesn't matter, and its never failed to go off like it should in those conditions...

[Daryl]

Walks,

I use a leather lock cover.  I guess I should have put the phrase "cow's knee" in quotes because mine is not truly the knee of a cow.

Mine works similar to what you describe with your chamois lock cover.  I grease it up good with sno-seal as well.  The only difference I can imagine is that mine is thicker leather so it has to come off entirely to shoot.  Your chamois idea might be nice to try since you can shoot with it on.

...I've never had a problem with snow and rain getting down the bore and contaminating the powder.  I use tallow for patch lube and for the last few years I use a tallow "grease cookie" between powder and ball.  This seems to keep all water from entering via the bore, as well as allows me to shoot and reload indefinitely without swabbing.

My leather lock cover works well enough at keeping the priming charge dry.  I just don't particularly care to deal with it if I don't have to.  Plus I read from time-to-time of hunters that put a little grease around the pan and such to keep moisture out.  I never really understood if this practice was in lieu of a lock cover or in addition to a lock boot.

With a good ball/patch combination using any form of grease, it is already water sealed. If not, the ball/patch combination needs some work.  Any of my rifles can have water dumpled down the bore after loading, and it will never get to the powder - it can't. 

With modern guns, for hunting in inclement weather, I put a strip of electricians tape across the muzzle. I haven't tried this with a ML, but it should work just the same and not have any effect on accuracy.  Probably have to use Duct tape on the .69.

[roundball]

"...electricians tape across the muzzle. I haven't tried this with a ML, but it should work just the same and not have any effect on accuracy..."

It works the same...I've used some sort of muzzle cover for years:
Started with black "muzzle mitts"...expensive...essentially a straight balloon that is stretched & slid down around the muzzle;
Next was a box of large size 'finger cots'...same thing but a lot cheaper;

Next was masking tape / painters tape...because I had a 1.5" roll on hand and it is significantly wider than the electrial tape I had on hand 

Plus, I noticed that when burst with air pressure, since there's no stretch with the masking tape, one side always bursts cleanly first and the whole flap is blown back out of the way, hinging around to one side of the outside of the barrel...

[Walks with Fire]

Putting tape over the muzzle is to keep the rain and snow out of the barrel. Not so much to keep the powder dry but snow down the barrel is not a good thing and I don't want to shoot with water down there either. The shammy leather is much thinner than regular leather as you pointed out Jacque.

[Daryl]

That's right Walks with Fire - it's to keep moisture or water from snow, rain or drips from trees out of the bore.  Have a modern bullet run over a droplet of water is bad for the bore and if between the ctg. and chamber wall, rings the chamber. Having a round ball run over a droplet of water might not be good either.  Having either concounter a few ounces of water, snow or frozen water could be ruinous to your health.

[J.D.]

My cows knee covers the lock and about 13" of the forestock. It also extends back to the wrist.

How to carry it when not in use? Wrap it tightly around your horn and tie it in place. No muss, no fuss...unless it is wetter than a swamp in a frog strangling downpour. 

God bless

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I use one of these and it has worked terrifically!!   I do believe they had this material in colonial days.



got it from Curt Lyles  www.cdlyles.com