Author Topic: Full stock English Sporting Rifle barrel options? (Read 5474 times)

Bsharp · « **on:** August 17, 2021, 12:31:16 AM »

Swamped, straight taper, octagon to round or tapered round rifled barrel cold be used on a 32" full stock English sporting rifle?

Short English Fowling rifle with a round barrel?

Barrel, 1.1/8" at breech, .62 or .69 caliber.

2.5" drop at heal and wide butte plate. [needs]

What are my barrel options for a 32" gun?

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2021, 12:50:32 AM »

What time period?

smart dog · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2021, 01:01:13 AM »

Hi,
Thanks Mike for asking the all important question.

dave

Bsharp · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2021, 01:02:17 AM »

Late time period, so that I could make it a percussion with a hooked breech.

Or a flint with a hooked breech.

As long as I can get a good sparking flint action, to match, I will try something new!

All I know is that I like the stock design.

I don't know the time periods, can some one tell me some good references?

smart dog · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2021, 01:13:53 AM »

Hi Bsharp,
What stock design do you have in mind? Can you show us examples? I am not trying to be difficult but some of us can share a lot of good information with you if can clarify what your ideas are. Here is an example I built that is pretty generic with respect to late flint English rifles from 1810-1820.

Is this what you had in mind?

dave

Bob Roller · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2021, 03:06:40 PM »

THAT one is exactly what I would have made if I were ordering one.Everything that makes a long gun desirable is here IMHO.
I would want a rifle and not a smooth bore but that is a personal preference and it would use an L&R Small Manton with my own mechanism for fast performance.
Bob Roller

Bsharp · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2021, 03:40:58 PM »

Full Stock, English Sporting Rifle

Lets start with a round barrel, Did they ever make one?

Like an English Fowler, but in a rifle with 2.5"s drop at heel.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2021, 04:16:34 PM »

No round barrels on rifles. Fowling guns, OK.
Here's some early fullstock stuff I did some years ago.
https://app.photobucket.com/u/Gunmaker/a/cb83da14-fabf-44c4-95ce-08bb1207c5f4
https://app.photobucket.com/u/Gunmaker/a/164f15d8-ed0e-4306-8c5f-aaf5ee5f3a6a
https://app.photobucket.com/u/Gunmaker/a/592b3312-929b-4003-ac7f-ba298f6e7076

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2021, 04:17:25 PM »

Quote from: smart dog on August 17, 2021, 01:01:13 AM

Hi,
Thanks Mike for asking the all important question.

dave

It's the only logical place to start.

Frozen Run · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2021, 04:59:59 PM »

Can someone please recommend a book on the English sporting rifle, one with lots of good pictures?

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2021, 05:48:35 PM »

Quote from: Frozen Run on August 17, 2021, 04:59:59 PM

Can someone please recommend a book on the English sporting rifle, one with lots of good pictures?

Great British gunmakers by Neil and Back. If you can find a copy for less than $400 you're lucky. There's one on Mortimer and the Manton's for the later stuff. Again, very rare book that will cost you hundreds of dollars.

smart dog · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2021, 05:52:18 PM »

Hi Frozen Run,
There really is no single book about British flintlock and early percussion sporting rifles. You have to piece together photos and descriptions from several books such as Neal and Backs "Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790", "Great British Gunmakers Messrs Griffin, Tow, and Bailes", "The Manton Gunmakers", Bailey's "Robert Wogdon" and "British Military Flintlock Rifles". There are no big picture books that I know of similar to what we have for long rifles. Easier sources of images to visit are Geoff Walker's Flintlock Collection website (www.flintlockcollecton.net) and Lewis Drake's website (www.drake.net). They often have nice flint and percussion rifles with lots of pictures. Shumway's "RCA vol. 1" has images of a nice mid 18th century rifle by William Turvey. Full stocked British sporting rifles were very rare after 1800 or so. Most of the few surviving examples are from the 18th century. By the 19th, half stocked rifles and fowlers were the overwhelming fashion. The British did not make a lot of sporting rifles compared with smooth bores. For example, in Neal and Back's "The Manton Gunmakers" they list 172 smooth bores made by John Manton and his company during 1780s-1840s and only 18 rifles. I don't know if that was typical but he was a leading maker of sporting guns.

dave

Frozen Run · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2021, 06:56:17 PM »

Thank you for the recommendations!

Big Bubba · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2021, 10:52:30 PM »

Dave,
That is nice looking rifle. I'm interested in building one like that in .58 cal. Do you mind sharing the barrel specs?

Bob Roller · « **Reply #14 on:** August 18, 2021, 03:41:54 PM »

Mike Brooks library of photos is like the John Starling song called "White LIne" On and on the endless white line goes and are a worthwhile look.
Bob Roller

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2021, 04:17:16 PM »

Quote from: Bob Roller on August 18, 2021, 03:41:54 PM

Mike Brooks library of photos is like the John Starling song called "White LIne" On and on the endless white line goes and are a worthwhile look.
Bob Roller

Yep, It's fun to go back to my photo bucket page and see the evolution of my work. Lots of stuff there from years ago.

Bsharp · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2021, 04:30:33 PM »

I went to Geoff Walker's Flintlock Collection and found a Noble Fowler 1750 with a hooked breech.

I got vet excited at the round barrels, only to find out they were doubles.

I do like the round barrel look.

When did they start using the hooked breech?

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2021, 05:29:06 PM »

Quote from: Bsharp on August 18, 2021, 04:30:33 PM

I went to Geoff Walker's Flintlock Collection and found a Noble Fowler 1750 with a hooked breech.

I got vet excited at the round barrels, only to find out they were doubles.

I do like the round barrel look.

When did they start using the hooked breech?

At least 1720

smart dog · « **Reply #18 on:** August 18, 2021, 10:08:14 PM »

Hi,
There were probably a few British rifles during the flint era with octagon to round or tapered round barrels but the vast majority had swamped octagon barrels because the British tended to emulate German traditions when it involved rifles. The military Baker rifle is an example with a round barrel but the stock is clearly similar to Jaeger rifles. Below is a photo of 4 British rifles from 1779-1782. They are all full stocked, octagon barrels, and show strong Germanic style.

Notice also, they all have flat faced locks, which was almost universal on high quality guns after 1765 or so. Mike is probably right about when hooked breeches, usually called standing breeches, became popular with British makers. Standing breeches go hand in hand with using barrel keys rather than pins.

Big Bubba, the barrel on my rifles was from Charlie Burton. It is 54 caliber, 32" long, and 1 1/16" at the breech with a straight taper to about 15/16" at the muzzle. I don't remember the twist but the rifling was square bottomed and deep. I installed a custom made chambered breech that I designed machined from a block of 4140 steel.

dave

Robby · « **Reply #19 on:** August 18, 2021, 10:23:53 PM »

Thank you for the pictures of your work Dave and Mike!!!!!! Beautiful guns!!!!
Robby

R.J.Bruce · « **Reply #20 on:** August 19, 2021, 12:29:30 AM »

I remember those Mike Brooks English Park Rifles. Along with the Game Creeper's Rifle that he originally made for himself, it seemed like he made 4-5 Park Rifles over a several years period. I liked ALL of them, especially the .62 caliber one.

Big Bubba · « **Reply #21 on:** August 19, 2021, 12:54:03 AM »

Thanks Dave!

Daryl · « **Reply #22 on:** August 20, 2021, 02:08:04 AM »

I do like the lines of the top rifle. It is a 6 bore.
The middle rifle is also a 1/2 stocked flinter.
The 6 bore appears to have a swamped barrel and the middle one, a straight taper, both octagonal.

Bsharp · « **Reply #23 on:** August 21, 2021, 07:36:18 PM »

I found this Beauty, it's a half stock, but with a octagon to round, sort of.

https://live.amoskeagauction.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/7/lot/221?uact=5&aid=7&lid=222&current_page=0

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #24 on:** August 21, 2021, 09:12:32 PM »

That's WAY late, 1860 or past.

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Author Topic: Full stock English Sporting Rifle barrel options? (Read 5474 times)