Laubach 1740's German CNC'd Flintlock

[R.J.Bruce]

 What type of American rifles, and how late in date of their manufacture, would the Chris Laubach 1740's German flintlock be appropriate for? I'm trying to decide if this lock can be paired with a Rice, special order, .66 caliber, 37" long, Edward Marshall barrel?

[J. Talbert]

Seems to me it would be appropriate for CS style rifle with that barrel.

Jeff

[flinchrocket]

His website shows one on a Lehigh/Bethlehem type, perhaps 1780 era. So, CS would be fine. Send him a email and I’m sure he would be glad to answer any questions that you have. https://firelocksllc.com/

[rich pierce]

What type of American rifles, and how late in date of their manufacture, would the Chris Laubach 1740's German flintlock be appropriate for? I'm trying to decide if this lock can be paired with a Rice, special order, .66 caliber, 37" long, Edward Marshall barrel?

It would be a fine pairing.

[smart dog]

Hi RJ,
It is a fine lock for many early CS and Lancaster guns.  It is the spitting image of the early locks used by Dickert.  However, one gun it is not accurate for is the Edward Marshall rifle.  It is too long and has a curved bottom edge, which along with the similar Chambers early Germanic lock, changes the architecture such that reproductions that use them don't really look like the original.  When I built my version of the Edward Marshall gun, I wanted to use Chris' lock so badly because it is probably the finest commercially made lock in the world but it just did not fit.  The irony is I ended up reworking another commercially made lock that was vastly inferior but worked after I remade it.  However, I will buy Chris' lock when I build RCA #52.

dave

[R.J.Bruce]

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't necessarily advocating for an Edward Marshall style rifle.

I was just trying to obtain a lighter weight barrel in .66 caliber with an Edward Marshall pattern barrel, as opposed to the Early Dutch Lancaster barrel at 41" long,with its 1.312" breech diameter.

I was going to ask Jason if he would make a Edward Marshall barrel with a 1.154" diameter breech, which would make for a barrel wall thickness of 0.225". Which I think is plenty.

[R.J.Bruce]

What style of rifle is the Woodsrunner rifle considered to be? I really like the stock architecture on it, and the several rifles posted here over the last few years that purported to be Woodsrunner rifles.

The Joe Schell .62 caliber Woodsrunner is one I particularly remember.

I am guessing that the Laubach lock won't work on a Woodsrunner rifle?

[flinchrocket]

The Woodsrunner rifle is I believe a early Virginia with a round face English lock. The Feather rifle has a flat face German lock, but I don’t know anything else about it.

[R.J.Bruce]

Let me pose this question?

Which of the early styles of rifles that the Laubach flintlock would be appropriate for, would have the best stock architecture for handling recoil?

I am not locked into any particular style.

[rich pierce]

Let me pose this question?

Which of the early styles of rifles that the Laubach flintlock would be appropriate for, would have the best stock architecture for handling recoil?

I am not locked into any particular style.

There are a couple ways to build an early rifle. They are few and far between. One way is to replicate a specific original as closely as possible. Unless a well known original with available castings and so on, there can be a lot of fabrication and modification of parts. Let’s take the Marshall rifle for example. Smart Dog recently showed us how he created a close copy.
Now we have 2 terrific books on Moravian rifles with great pictures and know the shop used a wide variety of flintlocks in their builds; English in styling, Germanic, some seemingly current to the rest of the build, and some that had been in a bin somewhere for 30 years or perhaps had served on another gun previously. So if one takes the approach, for example, of building a Christians Spring rifle that was “made the same year as this one or that one”, the Laubach lock could serve well.

If one chooses the “replicate a specific original as closely as possible” approach, at least half such builds will need customization of whatever lock one chooses as “pretty close to start out with.”  With that approach, the Laubach lock will be best suited for a mid 1700s German rifle build. It feels too pretty to mess with or grunge up (to me).  But could and likely did locks like this get used across the colonies on rifle builds in the 1750’s to 1770’s or even later here? Almost certainly. Look at Eric Kettenburg’s creative early builds for ideas on how to create an early gun with distinctive parts and styling.

[rich pierce]

RJ, what books do you have that have original early rifles in them?

[R.J.Bruce]

RJ, what books do you have that have original early rifles in them?

None. All I have at this time is the book by Grinslade, "Flintlock Fowlers". My next purchase was to be a reference for early rifles.

[smart dog]

Hi RJ,
In truth, a jaeger would be a good choice for balance and recoil.  In addition, I think any early Lancaster or CS rifle with wide butts would be just fine.  I can tell you from experience, the rifle I built below, which could represent any region of eastern PA, is superb handling and handles recoil very well.  It is 62 caliber with a "D" weight 41" barrel and a Laubach lock would fit perfectly.












dave

[R.J.Bruce]

Hi RJ,
In truth, a jaeger would be a good choice for balance and recoil.  In addition, I think any early Lancaster or CS rifle with wide butts would be just fine.  I can tell you from experience, the rifle I built below, which could represent any region of eastern PA, is superb handling and handles recoil very well.  It is 62 caliber with a "D" weight 41" barrel and a Laubach lock would fit perfectly.












dave

Thanks for the images, Dave. I love your stars inlaid inside of the cheek piece carving. In truth I am NOT interested in a bench copy of any particular gun.
What I am interested in is a rifle with superb balance, and one that shoulders naturally.

It is going to HAVE TO HAVE a tang-mounted ghost ring rear sight of some sort. No compromise on that.

Another thing I am adamant about is a 13" length of pull. Most rifles I shoulder have too long of a pull for me to use once I put winter clothing on.

A third thing I feel is a necessity for me is sling swivels that are wide enough to handle a custom cut, modern shooting sling, 2" wide. I need all the help I can get in steadying my aim with my osteoarthritis. Not HC, or PC, but it is what my body requires if I am going to spend money on a custom rifle.

Last, but NOT LEAST I want the builder to act as if this were still the 18th Century, he had completed his journeymanship, and was building my rifle with all of HIS artistic ability so as to put 100% of his talent into creating a new work of art that pays homage to the past, but stands entirely on its own.

In that vein, I have had a love affair with snapping turtles ever since I saw the first one as a kid. My doctor's have advised me to shoot from both sides. I am ambidextrous as far as shooting is concerned. I was spitballing an early rifle with 2 cheek pieces that would give a builder that much more room to carve behind a second cheek piece. If a builder could be found that would consider incorporating the snapping turtle into the carving then I would be happy, happy, happy.

[rich pierce]

Here is an example of a Lancaster smooth rifle folks are putting at 1780 or even later. But look at the lock and guard. So, a gun can always have earlier era parts.

[Craig Wilcox]

I am currently building a Yaeger with Ron Scott's furniture, Charlie Burton 29" .62 cal swamped barrel.  It does look as tho recoil will not be a problem.  Drop at heel is between 2 3/4" and 3".  With that English Walnut stock, it will probably weigh in at under 10#, but not a whole lot under.

Chris Laubach's lock is a wonder all by itself.

Still have a LOT of wood to remove!

[smart dog]

Hi RJ,
In truth, a jaeger would be a good choice for balance and recoil.  In addition, I think any early Lancaster or CS rifle with wide butts would be just fine.  I can tell you from experience, the rifle I built below, which could represent any region of eastern PA, is superb handling and handles recoil very well.  It is 62 caliber with a "D" weight 41" barrel and a Laubach lock would fit perfectly.












dave

Thanks for the images, Dave. I love your stars inlaid inside of the cheek piece carving. In truth I am NOT interested in a bench copy of any particular gun.
What I am interested in is a rifle with superb balance, and one that shoulders naturally.

It is going to HAVE TO HAVE a tang-mounted ghost ring rear sight of some sort. No compromise on that.

Another thing I am adamant about is a 13" length of pull. Most rifles I shoulder have too long of a pull for me to use once I put winter clothing on.

A third thing I feel is a necessity for me is sling swivels that are wide enough to handle a custom cut, modern shooting sling, 2" wide. I need all the help I can get in steadying my aim with my osteoarthritis. Not HC, or PC, but it is what my body requires if I am going to spend money on a custom rifle.

Last, but NOT LEAST I want the builder to act as if this were still the 18th Century, he had completed his journeymanship, and was building my rifle with all of HIS artistic ability so as to put 100% of his talent into creating a new work of art that pays homage to the past, but stands entirely on its own.

In that vein, I have had a love affair with snapping turtles ever since I saw the first one as a kid. My doctor's have advised me to shoot from both sides. I am ambidextrous as far as shooting is concerned. I was spitballing an early rifle with 2 cheek pieces that would give a builder that much more room to carve behind a second cheek piece. If a builder could be found that would consider incorporating the snapping turtle into the carving then I would be happy, happy, happy.

Hi RJ,
I posted those pictures because it is a rifle that is not a bench copy of anything and it handles superbly and recoil superbly, just what you asked for.  It is an example for which Laubach's lock would be very appropriate.  I posted it for you to think about when considering styles, which you asked for.

dave       

[tecum-tha]

Very common to also re-use barrels. This gun is from 1730, but most of the Turkish wars were over around 1700.
A lot of bounty barrels were restocked in Vienna, because of their excellent quality.
https://www.hermann-historica.de/en/auctions/lot/id/435704

[wattlebuster]

What style of rifle is the Woodsrunner rifle considered to be? I really like the stock architecture on it, and the several rifles posted here over the last few years that purported to be Woodsrunner rifles.

The Joe Schell .62 caliber Woodsrunner is one I particularly remember.

I am guessing that the Laubach lock won't work on a Woodsrunner rifle?

R.J. I own the Joe Schell 62 cal woodsrunner that you refer too. Mine has a english lock on it. The feather rifle which IIRC is attributed to the same builder has a german lock on it or at least I think I remember it looking german too me. I can tell you that the woodsrunner pattern is the most comfortable shooting an best natural pointing rifle that I own. I like the pattern well enough that I had Joe build me a 40 cal just like it an he will soon build me a 12 ga smoothbore in that pattern. Good luck you whichever direction you choose go

[tecum-tha]

I'd get a shorter jaeger rifle. You can put any sling on it in the configuration you like. I'd use a european style shooting stick to steady the rifle.
Most rifles were not super artistic. Very artistic were rifles for nobility who paid a yearly stipend to gunsmith. If the liked the rifle, he got extra, if not, it was sold to someone else.
A lot of the common rifles were of course not preserved. They were considered tools and when worn out were mostly recycled. Fancy stuff owned by nobility was preserved because it was considered family heirloom property, at lrast the fancy ones.

[Dphariss]

If you intend to shoot enough powder to give a decent trajectory to 100 yards or so the comb needs to be nearly parallel to the bore.  I would stock it like an English sporting rifle if I were building it. Cause if you move that ball at 1500/1600 fps its going to make some recoil and your face will hit the comb if its not done right. This is a .662” ball at 1600. Rifle has a 29 3/4” barrel with the breech, 1 1/4” breech and 1 1/8 muzzle.
Did put a spring in the forend to hold the RR in place.

[Daryl]

The English styling makes the butt drive the shoulder back, but also down, which in effect pulls the comb away from the cheek bone in a downward angle.
This is the result of a 14 bore, 482gr. ball with 140gr. 2F GOEX, so roughly 1,450fps.
 Taylor "caught" the rifle almost  at the limit of it's travel under recoil.  Regardless of the movement, it does not hurt to fire this rifle. Good styling and wide butt plates work.