Author Topic: First Build Recommendations  (Read 4232 times)

Offline Srkmarine1101

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
First Build Recommendations
« on: September 08, 2021, 03:10:57 AM »
So I'm finally taking the plunge and would like to do my first build. I have narrowed my choices down to the Jeager rifle kit from Pecatonica. I know Kibler is always everyone's first recommendation (their great!) but I am just not interested in their current offerings.

I'd have the folks at Pecatonica install the beach plug, cut the site dovetails and ruff fit the butt plate. I'm under no illusions that these "kits" are easy and quick to go together. I know there will be a good bit of fitting and wood removal.

Just wondering your guys's thoughts on if this will be inappropriate kit for beginner? Or any other recommendations. I'm interested in a Jeager or early transitional style rifle.
 I have basic woodworking skills, and I'm meticulous by nature...I feel like if I took my time with this, it just might turn out ok.

Offline Bill Raby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1545
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2021, 03:51:33 AM »
   That kit would be fine for a first one. Building guns is not nearly so hard as everyone seems to think it is. There is no need to have Pecatonia do that extra work. It is not hard to do.

Offline Stoner creek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2915
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2021, 04:08:55 AM »
Ask lots of questions before you spend your money.  My experience has been that some of these precarve stocks can be more work and frustration than building from a blank. If I were in your shoes I would consider a Chambers kit or a Kibler kit. You're going to learn a lot of why's and wheres with both. The Chambers kit will better hone your inletting and stock shaping skills.  You will be happy with either.
Stop Marxism in America

Offline Srkmarine1101

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2021, 04:24:35 AM »
   That kit would be fine for a first one. Building guns is not nearly so hard as everyone seems to think it is. There is no need to have Pecatonia do that extra work. It is not hard to do.

Thanks. My biggest concern is actually shaping the stock to look like a rifle...instead of a block.

Offline Srkmarine1101

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2021, 04:29:17 AM »
Ask lots of questions before you spend your money.  My experience has been that some of these precarve stocks can be more work and frustration than building from a blank. If I were in your shoes I would consider a Chambers kit or a Kibler kit. You're going to learn a lot of why's and wheres with both. The Chambers kit will better hone your inletting and stock shaping skills.  You will be happy with either.

Great advice. I'll look at those too. I was also considering the Edward Marshal rifle from Track as well.

Offline flinchrocket

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2021, 04:40:14 AM »
I realize that a lot of museums are closed right now, but if there was someplace where you could see some original rifles it would help quite a bit. Also, Recreating the American Longrifle by William Buchele is a excellent book for first timers. I would get the Marshal kit from Chambers or Dunlap Woodcrafts.

Offline Srkmarine1101

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2021, 05:19:23 AM »
I realize that a lot of museums are closed right now, but if there was someplace where you could see some original rifles it would help quite a bit. Also, Recreating the American Longrifle by William Buchele is a excellent book for first timers. I would get the Marshal kit from Chambers or Dunlap Woodcrafts.


Didn't know about Dunlap  Woodcrafts. Thanks  for the heads up on them.

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2021, 03:52:12 PM »
That Jeager kit sucks if you want to make an actual Jeager. I'd go with any of Chambers products instead.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline flehto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3335
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2021, 04:03:07 PM »
Ih you want to learn the "how to" of building LRs or MLers, one of the parts sets from  Pecatonica , Chambers {more choices}, Dunlap, etc is the way to go. Having built parts sets from some of these  suppliers, all of them had  flaws that had to be corrected. ...but that's just part of building. Possibly the Kibler kit would be
"flaw free" because of CNC technology, bit one wouldn't learn as much about building LRs as w/ the parts sets from the above suppliers. If all you're after is a quality MLer  that's easy to assemble buy the Kibler. But if you want to learn how to build a LR, go w/ a parts set from one of the above suppliers. .......Fred

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5303
  • Tennessee
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2021, 04:24:59 PM »
   That kit would be fine for a first one. Building guns is not nearly so hard as everyone seems to think it is. There is no need to have Pecatonia do that extra work. It is not hard to do.

Thanks. My biggest concern is actually shaping the stock to look like a rifle...instead of a block.

Get the profile right then put the parts in the correct places and then remove all the extra wood.  Just those three steps and then on to finishing.  :o ;D   Simple hah? 

Also if you'll share your build steps here--the membership will likely help you around the small issues that tend to plague most pre-carves (exceptions to Chambers and Kibler of course).

I started with a blank, but also had a "local" nearly an hour away, who sawed out the profile and drilled my RR hole. Letting in a bbl is the only "pre-work" I care to have done now (having 'let a few in myself). But the profile has to be sawed for barrel installation--so it's actually two steps from a blank, three if you get the rammer hole bored.  As I understand it, some guys in the biz of gunmaking do it this way too.

Look at books and tutorials here for the metal working aspects you might not be comfortable with. That way you get to make all the decisions (compromises) on where to put things. Best of luck.
Hold to the Wind

Offline borderdogs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 730
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2021, 04:49:03 PM »
"Get the profile right then put the parts in the correct places and then remove all the extra wood."

I like what Wade said! I have dealt with Pecotonica River a few times and they are good to work with like Bill said their part sets are not that hard to build. I built a kit back in the lat 70's but didn't build a second one until I got the parts set from Pecontonica. But take your time because you will make mistakes. I like the Kibler and Chambers kits but I wanted to build something that neither had also I wanted something more challenging than Kiblers kits. 
Rob

Offline heinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2021, 05:06:28 PM »
I took a quick look at Pecaonnica River's current offerings.  I would trust Mike Brooks comments on the Jaeger
Their "early Kentucky" or "Transitional Rifle" might fit your needs very well.  You can call up and talk to them.  They will steer you straight.  If you can spend a little more call up Chambers Flintlocks and. tell them you are new.  They will also lead you in the right direction.
kind regards, heinz

Offline Eric Krewson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2255
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2021, 05:10:27 PM »
My first and second builds were from planks, being a rookie I bought a full sized set of plans for each rifle. Good builders hate these plans and draw their own but I am not a good builder. The plans give you cutaways of different places in the stock to show you how to shape the stock. Parts like the buttplate give you a profile to carry to the wrist.

With two plank builds and two precarves under my belt I would choose a plank build with the barrel inletted and ramrod hole drilled by an expert over any precarve except a Kibler.

I use these;

 

And this to make sure my shaping is spot on with no flat spots like the dreaded slab sided fore end.


« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 01:40:15 AM by Eric Krewson »

Offline Eric Krewson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2255
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2021, 05:14:41 PM »
This is the by the plan fowler shown above after it was finished, not great but OK;



Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7014
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2021, 05:22:59 PM »
Hi,
First, Kibler kits are not everyone's first recommendation for every new builder.  The advantages of the Kiblers are they are precisely made and as much "snap together" out of the box as can be commercially produced.  Their designs are excellent, components first quality, and when you are done you have a well styled rifle that can be used as a model for what a properly made long rifle should look like.  You will understand how all the parts should fit and how a stock should be shaped and refined.  However, you won't learn or practice many gun making skills or procedures beyond finishing a stock, and only 2 styles are currently offered, which you indicated are not what you want.  If you desire to learn and practice a greater range of skills and seek a wider range of styles, a gun made from one of the other kits or a blank would be better but the trade off is you risk making more mistakes and getting things wrong, particularly with respect to fitting parts, architecture, and shaping.  It is all a trade off.  The Edward Marshall rifle is an excellent handling gun and I recommend Chambers kit for that.  It is a challenge to get the stock shaped right but it is worth the effort.  The Chambers kit uses Chambers early Germanic lock, which is closer to the original lock than the Davis jaeger lock usually supplied with the kits by other makers including Track of the Wolf.  If you go that route, I recommend 58 caliber.  I don't think TOW sells an Edward Marshall kit anymore.
 

dave     
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Stoner creek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2915
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2021, 05:33:47 PM »
I took a quick look at Pecaonnica River's current offerings.  I would trust Mike Brooks comments on the Jaeger
Their "early Kentucky" or "Transitional Rifle" might fit your needs very well.  You can call up and talk to them.  They will steer you straight.  If you can spend a little more call up Chambers Flintlocks and. tell them you are new.  They will also lead you in the right direction.
I might be wrong but Chambers had a few stocks left with very minor cosmetic flaws. These are easily good enough to use and complete an attractive gun with. You can save yourself around $200 in the process.
Stop Marxism in America

Offline RAT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 699
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2021, 05:08:10 AM »
IF you decide to go with the Chambers Marshal kit, you can order a "how to" DVD to go along with it. Chambers sells (or used to) the  how to video that Ron Ehlert did for American Pioneer Video. It's in 2 parts (get both). I never built a Chambers Marshal kit, but one of our guild members had one (unfinished). It looks like a good kit. The Chambers lock is definitely better than the Davis. I used the Davis on my 2nd build (1st one from the plank). I had to completely re-build the lock and make new springs. I have the DVD's... they're some of the best. Ron was really informative. Unfortunately I never got to meet him, although I had the chance to speak with him on the phone once.
Bob

Offline borderdogs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 730
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2021, 05:39:15 AM »
Bob
I thought that was a York rifle
Rob

Offline Srkmarine1101

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2021, 04:49:59 PM »
Thanks everyone for the great responses and recommendations!

I will take a closer look at the kits from Jim Chambers, and ask on blemished availability. Also, I plan on buying some books/DVDs to watch before I even order my kit. 

As far as books, I am looking at Gunsmiths of Greenville County and Recreating the American Longrifle. I will be asking plenty of questions on here I am sure.


Offline flinchrocket

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2021, 05:37:55 PM »
http://americanlongrifles.org/PDF/tutorial.pdf
You may want to take a look at this.

Offline RAT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 699
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2021, 01:02:56 AM »
I don't believe the video I mentioned has Ron building the Marshal rifle. I really wasn't connecting the video to a specific rifle, just that he shows you how to build a Chambers kit in general. Honestly... It's been awhile since I watched it... I have it on VHS.
Bob

Offline borderdogs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 730
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2021, 02:19:39 AM »
Bob,
I watched it not that long ago I think it was a York and if I remember right he built two one with a single trigger and another with a double set trigger.
Rob

Offline Srkmarine1101

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2021, 02:35:40 AM »

Offline Srkmarine1101

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2021, 02:36:30 AM »
I will pick this up :)

I don't believe the video I mentioned has Ron building the Marshal rifle. I really wasn't connecting the video to a specific rifle, just that he shows you how to build a Chambers kit in general. Honestly... It's been awhile since I watched it... I have it on VHS.

Offline tlallijr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
Re: First Build Recommendations
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2021, 04:16:21 AM »
Another route to consider is getting a stock from Dave Keck at knob mountain muzzleloading.

http://knobmountainmuzzleloading.com/FredMillerStockpage3.html