Jacob Rupp sign

[spgordon]

This amazing piece is for sale at an upcoming Morphy's auction.



https://issuu.com/morphyauctions/docs/flipdoc_sept_29?fr=sZDU0MzQ2NjA1NQ

Apparently Sam Dyke proposed that the letters on the sign meant:

MA: Macungie
DP: Township
LC: Lehigh County

I can't think of an alternate possibility. "DP" for Township seems a stretch to me, largely because--despite spending a lot of time for many years reading eighteenth-century documents--I've never seen this particular abbreviation. To be fair, though, I have often seen, in documents in which German-speakers rendered words into English, the "D" and "T" confused: "Tickert" for "Dickert," for instance.

Thoughts? Has anybody seen "Township" abbreviated as "DP"?

[Shreckmeister]

Delivery Post or something to that affect?

[Shreckmeister]

Fantasy piece imho

[spgordon]

Fantasy piece imho

Not sure what that means! You mean that you don't think it's from 1817?

[Shreckmeister]

Sorry, I read the auction description now. It says the house was torn down in 1967 and Jacob Rupp put the sign up in 1817.  Does that look like 150 years of weathering to anyone else?  How is the family that was still alive in 1967 know that that sign was installed in 1817?  In my opinion someone came along many years later and put that up to honor establishment of the family homestead

[spgordon]

Sorry, I read the auction description now. It says the house was torn down in 1967 and Jacob Rupp put the sign up in 1817.  Does that look like 150 years of weathering to anyone else?  How is the family that was still alive in 1967 know that that sign was installed in 1817?  In my opinion someone came along many years later and put that up to honor establishment of the family homestead

I understand. Thanks.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I can't really add anything of relevance to this other than to say that this sign has been around for quite a while.  I know I saw it first-hand prob. 20 years ago along with the John Rupp attributed side-opener.

If someone was going to 'fake' it, wouldn't it have been better to use either Herman Rupp or John Rupp?  Or is that the genius of it?   

[Mike Brooks]

I  have a sign make that could do you one just like it. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference. These things are pretty easily faked.

[heinz]

I do not recognize the font.   Macungie Borough was Millertown in 1817 although there was a Macungie Township
  I have never seen Township abbreviated  DP.  What is "Township" in period Deutsch?

[Eric Kettenburg]

Does that look like 150 years of weathering to anyone else?

I don't know much about it so take it with a grain of salt - but perhaps the sign was hanging under the edge of a porch roof or gable or something, somewhat protected?  Who knows.

Maybe it's the sign equivalent of "George Washington's axe!"

I don't buy the "Dp" for township either.

[Shreckmeister]

District? Province?

[Chris_B]

  I have never seen Township abbreviated  DP.  What is "Township" in period Deutsch?

I am not sure about period Deutsch, and as a Northern
German I often do not understand the „Deutsch“ they
speak in Southwestern Germany…
But the word first comes to my mind is Ortschaft, no DP in here.

[spgordon]

I suppose the best evidence for its authenticity is the mysterious "DP"--or maybe evidence of a devilishly clever faker. Most fakers would put something there that would make sense.

[Chris_B]

That makes sense

[WESTbury]

A chemical analysis of the paint and dating of the wood would narrow the possibilities.


(I learned this from watching Curse of Oak island)

[smart dog]

Hi,
All of you speculating about the "DP" might consider that the MA and LC may not mean Macungie or Lehigh County either.

dave

[Eric Kettenburg]

Maybe he was thinking, "200 years from now, those suckers are gonna hav'ta guess!"

[spgordon]

Hi,
All of you speculating about the "DP" might consider that the MA and LC may not mean Macungie or Lehigh County either.

dave

For sure—any suggestions?

[Shreckmeister]

I honestly don't think there is anything "fakery" about it.  I just think someone put this up years after Jacob was gone in honor of him
establishing his homestead there in 1817.  This is so commonplace even today.

[spgordon]

I honestly don't think there is anything "fakery" about it.  I just think someone put this up years after Jacob was gone in honor of him
establishing his homestead there in 1817.  This is so commonplace even today.

Then the lettering below is even more mysterious!

[WESTbury]

I honestly don't think there is anything "fakery" about it.  I just think someone put this up years after Jacob was gone in honor of him
establishing his homestead there in 1817.  This is so commonplace even today.

Perhaps a historical marker put up during the 1776 Centennial year.

I do not think it is a fake. That word gets thrown around way too much on this forum without any intellectual basis for that type of auto reflexive speculation.

[spgordon]

I honestly don't think there is anything "fakery" about it.  I just think someone put this up years after Jacob was gone in honor of him
establishing his homestead there in 1817.  This is so commonplace even today.

I do not think it is a fake. That word gets thrown around way too much on this forum without any intellectual basis for that type of auto reflexive speculation.

The original post did not discuss or intend to start a discussion about whether the sign was a fake or not.

I'm interested in what the lettering under Rupp's name might mean. Does anybody have any suggestions?

[spgordon]

By the way:

Why would anybody put something like "Macungie Township, Lehigh County" on their house sign? This information,  I would think, is something that one would put on an item--a rifle, a letter, whatever--that travels away from one's homestead.

Certainly if the sign is of more recent vintage--perhaps to honor Rupp at his homestead at some point--nobody would use DP for Township, unless they were copying an earlier sign that hung there. So maybe it means something else ... though what?

The sign predates the Bicentennial, since Sam Dyke removed it from the home in 1967.

[flinchrocket]

The location of the periods are somewhat confusing, without any order. Then, if lc is supposed to represent Lehigh County one would expect the L to be capitalized as are Ma & Dp.

[spgordon]

It would be helpful to know exactly where Rupp lived, if we're puzzling out the lettering on the sign.

There was, for instance, a Macungie depot, but (a) probably only after the railroads, which came after 1817, and (b) I have no idea if it was close to the Rupp homestead.