Creating a hooked breech??

[rich pierce]

You'd pretty much have to make one if you want that pattern which has that hump behind the breech.  or maybe Chambers has it.

[Don Getz]

Thanks Tim, you have answered my question.   That gun should have a hook breech, unfortunately.   A hook breech is not a fun thing to build, good luck...............Don

[Dphariss]

Don,

Why.......cause it's there..    No, cause I have a nice piece of highly figured black walnut and a .58 Griffin barrel inlet by Dave Rase, and an early Ketland lock  and I want to build a "Griffin Rifle"... They had hooked breeches.  Some of them anyway.   The wood is so nice I want to create a gun that will show off the wood. Minimal carving and some simple engraving.  I think this one will be finished as new from the shop...but who knows...... "This rifle belonged to the Colonel Commandant of Montgomery's Highlanders, "Archibald Montgomery, 11th Earl of Eglinton". Nice quality lock from De Witt Bailey’s collection in England. Basically there is no difference between the rifle and fowler of this time period. The lock plate measures 5 1/2" x 15/16". The throw of the cock is 1 1/2". (from the Rifle Shoppe)

http://www.therifleshoppe.com/(662).htm

This will be my first gun with keys rather than pins. another learning opportunity.  Though I rarely ever remove barrels from my guns.... locks yes, barrels no.

This is first gun from a blank..... so architecture will be critical..... I will be doing lots of (probably too much) measuring etc and will submit photos for critique and guidance along the way.

Make the "hook" pretty substantial.
Make the standing part of the breech from flat plate. I would order 1018 flat stock of the right thickness  from MSCDirect.com.
Drill or mill a hole in the flat stock then carefully file/chisel/scrape to fit your hook *tightly*. Its pretty easy with the hole in a flat plate.
Then weld on a tang with a tig or mig welder with mild steel wire and shape everything to suit.
In a heavy caliber rifle you may want to run a screw from the bottom of the stock to the bottom of the standing breech, mine runs through the front TG finial to the breech. This stabilizes the standing breech better. Make sure its got good support from the wood.

Dan

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Hmmm.......that screw from the bottom is a very interesting idea. Through the finial eh?   I sure wish i had some good pictures or could handle an original Griffin.  Thanks Dan.

[Dphariss]

Hmmm.......that screw from the bottom is a very interesting idea. Through the finial eh?   I sure wish i had some good pictures or could handle an original Griffin.  Thanks Dan.

I am going to convert mine so that it locks the breech.

Dan

[James Rogers]

Check here for some good pics of a standing breech with the lock out.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6026.0

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Paul Kinder was kind enough to send me a great article from Muzzle Blasts November 1977 written by Ray Keeler.  It is a very helpful article with good drawings.  It actually describes making the plug as well as the hooked breech.  Interestingly he makes the standing breech without a tang and then when it is all fitted and tight to the barrel he takes it off and cuts a dovetail into the top of the standing breech inn which he then solders the tang.............

[Dphariss]

Paul Kinder was kind enough to send me a great article from Muzzle Blasts November 1977 written by Ray Keeler.  It is a very helpful article with good drawings.  It actually describes making the plug as well as the hooked breech.  Interestingly he makes the standing breech without a tang and then when it is all fitted and tight to the barrel he takes it off and cuts a dovetail into the top of the standing breech inn which he then solders the tang.............

Solder/dovetail may work and it may not chances are its not going to stay tight with much use. I would have it welded, dovetailed or not. BTDT.

Dan

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Yeah, he even has one in which he screwed the tang to the top of the standing breech............

[James Rogers]

Dr. Tim,
I am trying to learn all this as well. Are the methods you mentioned from the article historical for 18th century English pieces like the Griffin rifle you are building?

[Acer Saccharum]

The Irish, God help them, made marvelously fitted hooked breeches on their long range target guns.

Success of the breech is all about precision fit. For a fowler, accuracy is not as critical as for a rifle.

[Long John]

Doc,

I have made only one.  I did it years ago before ARL existed.  It is on a 12 gauge smoothbored gun that is equipped with a hooked breech and keys because I thought, back then, that it was necessary to remove the barrel for cleaning.

This is how I made mine.  I fitted the breech plug, 3/4-16 thread, just like you always do with a good snug fit at the bottom of the female threaded section of the breech.  I the took a hack saw and cut off the tang.  Using the hack saw again I sliced along side the vertical faces of the part of the breech plug that extend backward from the barrel, on each side, down to where the breech end of the barrel started.  I then cut along side the breech end of the barrel to remove 2 rectangular slices.  This left me with an extension of 1/2 inch in thickness, centered on the bore, extending towards the butt from the breech.  I then cut the extension off at about 1/2 from the breech face.  I cut down the top of the breech plug extension about 1/4 inch and filed the top surface to be a shallow V with one leg vertical and on the same plain as the breech and the other leg angling upwards as it extended towards the butt.

I took a piece of 3/16" X 1.5"   mild, hot-rolled steel from the local hardware store and bent it with the aid of a propane torch, large vice and large hammer to a nice sharp right angle as the first step in making the soon-to-be standing breech.  I bored a pair of 3/8" holes in the short leg of the soon-to-be standing breech where the hook extension was to pass and then with files opened up the hole until the standing breech fit the barrel.  I flattened the standing breech with files until I had a nice snug fit.  Thats when I discovered that it is necessary to round of or otherwise relieve the bottom of the breech extension.

With the standing breech fitting to the barrel I used hot-melt glue to stick the 2 together.  Now I filed the standing breech vertical leg down to match the barrel profile.  Once that was done I filed down the standing breech tang to match my idea of where I was headed and the stock profile.  I then let the glued-together assembly in just like a regular barrel paying close attention to the fit at the rear face of the standing breech/stock interface.

The gun, though ugly, has shot many things over the past 20 years.

You can do it!

Best Regards,

JMC

[Acer Saccharum]

The gun, though ugly, has shot many things over the past 20 years.

Good to hear from you, Long John. I have more guns in the useful but ugly dept than I care to admit. Fortunately, I don't know where any of them are anymore, no pictures available.

I never built a standing breech gun. I have always wanted a screwed down fixed breech for target shooting. But for a gun to be correct for the style, the standing breech is necessary. I will be making some of these, for sure.

Tom

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have a hooked breech project ahead of me too.  It's for my rendition of Wm. Antes swivel rifle.  BOTH barrels will have hooks and fit into the face of the forward swivel plate.  It'll be quite a project.