Author Topic: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question  (Read 1831 times)

Offline Bob Gerard

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Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« on: September 18, 2021, 05:58:59 AM »
My first Tennessee Rifle and the trigger guard is unlike others I have used.
If I am correct, the rear of the guard has a small tab that will receive a pin. The large chunks are casting sprues?
I am guessing that the two long extensions on the forward flat are also casting sprues and not for pins, and it gets a mounting screw?
Thanks for any clarification.


Offline RAT

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2021, 06:54:40 AM »
Remove all of them. Guards on this style of rifle would be fastened with wood screw at both the front and rear.

LOTS of good TN rifle photos on this website. I think I've downloaded photos of around 70 rifles from this site over the years. You might want to do a little digging to provide more details.
Bob

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2021, 07:00:07 AM »
Thank you. The only photo I had of a Tennessee was from Track. It isn't quite the same trigger guard style and shows no screws. That what is confusing.


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« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 07:08:37 AM by Bob Gerard »

Offline steven baker

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2021, 08:24:11 AM »
Hi all, this maybe of help or hinderence.This shows how my latests project ,SMR type rifle iron mount caplock .This one is for GO not SHOW and not finished yet. This is how the triggergaurd is screwed on, one rear and one front , The larger one is for a double trigger and is similar to the one used. I hope this is some help for your build ,
Take care Steven











« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 02:11:14 PM by steven baker »

Offline Robin Henderson

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2021, 04:17:39 PM »
Most I've seen used screws. Make sure you get that front one far enough back so that it doesn't interfere with the ramrod hole.
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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2021, 05:33:53 PM »
I mentioned this on another board, the Bogle rifle has a pinned trigger guard.

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2021, 06:04:45 PM »
I thought the Bogle rifle was made in Virginia!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 06:14:45 PM by flinchrocket »

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2021, 07:11:50 PM »
Thanks everyone. Because of the forward bow in the trigger guard, I couldn't get a screw into the base of the TG to engage in the part of the fore stock that isnt drilled for the ram rod. I think I will need to pin the front, since there is enough space between the trigger plate and the ram rod hole (about 1")  to pin it in there.

Offline RAT

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2021, 07:47:39 PM »
Sorry to push it... but I strongly suggest you search this site for photos of original iron mounted TN rifles before doing any work. If the only photos you've seen are from Track of the Wolf you're going down the wrong rabbit hole.
Bob

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2021, 07:49:28 PM »
Rat, thanks, I have seen a few now. Some with pins though most with screws. A few had a pin (forward) and a screw (rear). The picture I am attaching is a Bogle rifle, using pins He copied it from an early one I understand.


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Offline Pete G.

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2021, 08:04:52 PM »
The Bogle is most definitely NOT a Tennesse rifle.

Offline RAT

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2021, 08:29:17 PM »
The Bogle rifle in the above post was made for Robert McTeer and dates to around 1790-1810. The trigger guard in your original post would date around 1820-1840. That might not seem like much, but it makes a difference. So does the history of the maker.

Joseph Bogle (maker of the above rifle) was born in York Co. PA on July 5, 1759. He moved to Rockbridge Co. VA in 1779. He served in both the PA and VA militias during the revolution. He moved to Blount Co. TN in 1784 or 1785. He died on April 1, 1811. He was associated with the gunmaker John Davidson of Rockbridge Co. VA, and may have learned gunmaking from him. There is similarity in their work.

The Bogle rifle shows characteristics for the early development of what would become the Southern Mountain/Appalachia school of gunmaking. This school seems to have developed before 1820, and possibly as early as 1815. Your trigger guard would be appropriate for the later, fully developed, school 1820-1840. Some on here can even tell you the name of the original gunmaker from who your trigger guard was copied.

If you're new to all this, it might seem to be picking on small points. It's kind of like those old western movies. The one's that are supposed to take place during the Civil War (1861-1865). But the actors are using Colt Peacemakers (model 1873). It does make a difference.
Bob

Offline RAT

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2021, 08:35:08 PM »
Technically, the Bogle rifle IS a TN rifle... he made it while living in TN. I classify it as an early transitional TN/southern mountain/Appalachia school rifle.

But it's NOT an 1820-1840 TN rifle.
Bob

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2021, 09:06:40 PM »
So, given the fact that there is no wood to support using a wood screw to secure the front of the trigger guard with this Pecatonica Tennessee Classic model, what recourse is there but to pin the front? 

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2021, 09:09:41 PM »
Glue in a piece of wood where you need to put the screw. Put the screw right in front of the bow and you will not lose enough ramrod hole to make a difference.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 09:13:26 PM by flinchrocket »

Offline Dave B

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2021, 09:26:38 PM »
The issue of having a ramrod long enuff to get a hold of if you dry ball the gun is an issue with a pugged rammrod hole for the screw.  The Late Jack Rouse showed me his standard modification to the ramrod chanel he did on all his TN  rifles. From the top barrel inlet he used his router with a jig to make a slot  through the barrel web into the ramrod chanel path. Having not drilled the full length of the ramrod hole in the forestock. The resulting  off set angle allowed him to use his special universal jointed ramrod drill to drill the last 4" of the RR hole so that it passed just off center of the point of the forward triggerguard screws location. He could make the RR a couple inches longer as the by pass allowed for it.  I used this on several of my rifles and it worked like a charm. I have heard of others bending the stock to accomplish the same thing but have not tried that yet. Dave Rase could comment on that if I am not mistaken. Just one more way to skin the Cat.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline RAT

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2021, 10:05:07 PM »
If you decide to go with the screw... Drill and countersink the hole in the front finial of the trigger guard. Then inlet the trigger guard. This lets you mark the location of the screw hole in the stock. Drill the pilot hole in the stock.
If you DON'T break into the ramrod hole, you're good.

If you DO break into the ramrod hole... cut a piece of dowel rod or extra length from the ramrod (if you haven't yet cut it to finished length). You don't need much... just enough for the screw to bite into... maybe 3/8". Squirt a little wood glue into your screw hole. Then, using the ramrod (or other full length dowel) push the piece into the ramrod hole and all the way down til it bottoms out. Pull out your ramrod/push tool. Let the glue dry, then drill your pilot hole for your screw.

The hole in the trigger guard should be just in front of where the bow joins the front finial. Just enough that you can drive the screw in without the screwdriver hitting the front of the bow. Actually... it's OK if it touches. You just don't want to have to angle the screwdriver and bugger up the screw slot.

There's no need to shorten the ramrod any. What difference does it make if it sticks out 3/8" in front of the barrel?

You could chisel out an area from inside the trigger guard inlet and glue in a piece of maple. That would be a little stronger. Or drill a larger hole from within the inlet that's perpendicular to the ramrod hole and glue in a dowel. But then your screw is going into end grain.

I'm not a great builder, but this one doesn't seem that hard to figure out.
Bob

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2021, 10:41:08 PM »
My current best friend is the latest version of the original Joseph Bogle who was his 5th (I think ) great grandfather) Joe did a ton of research about his great grandfather and I can assure you that the Bogle rifle pictured is a TN rifle. Its uniqueness stems from the transitional qualities it possesses.

Here is my friend Joe holding that very rifle at The Museum of Appalachia.



Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2021, 12:11:44 AM »
Wonderful!

Birddog6

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2021, 12:58:22 AM »
I would remove all tabs & use 2 or 3 screws. Front one in close to the bow.
As said, if front one goes in RR hole cut 3/8” piece of RR & push into RR hole
& glue it in. Here is a few examples.










Offline Notchy Bob

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2021, 01:47:46 PM »
This is all very interesting.  I saw and commented on Bob's similar post on the Muzzleloading Forum.  I would agree that most Tennessee rifles, and all that I have personally examined, have screw mounted trigger guards, but as I am not a builder, I never gave the logistics of this much thought.  However, I have observed a lot of southern Appalachian rifles with ramrods, in the pipes, protruding out beyond the muzzle by as much as a couple of inches.  Maybe this is why.



What an epiphany!

Notchy Bob

« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 02:38:18 PM by Notchy Bob »
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Offline smart dog

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2021, 02:27:39 PM »
Hi Bob,
A word of caution.  If you have to insert and glue a piece of ramrod into the hole, make sure it is small enough in diameter to easily be pushed down the hole with glue on it.  The worst case scenario is to not be able to push it home because with the glue, it gets stuck half way down. 

dave
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Birddog6

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2021, 03:02:38 PM »
Remember these Tenn & hog rifles were not made for looks, they were a tool.
I’ve seen allot of them with 2” plus RR sticking out. I usually have 1 to 1 1/2”
of RR sticking out from the muzzle. Makes it allot easier to get out for use.

Birddog6

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2021, 03:09:35 PM »
Oh, another note on glueing the 3/8” piece of RR in the hole.
Push the piece up in the RR hole with a drop of glue on the end
of the small piece. Pull the RR out & set the stock up Verticle &
let it sit for 24 hrs.   Do Not leave the RR in the hole or you might
glue the RR in. This would be a unnecessary Whoops

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Tennessee Rifle Trigger Guard Question
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2021, 05:42:13 PM »
I'd rather fake the front screw and use a hidden pin than have extra rod hanging out snagging every vine and sapling in the neighborhood. But that has nothing to do with originals. My mentor didn't tell me not to pin my first one, but he did tell me plenty were screwed, or maybe that most were screwed on. I think I've seen some pinned on one end and screwed on the other, but have lost my reference materials. 
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