Author Topic: Flint/Frizzen gap?  (Read 5867 times)

VtBlackdog

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Flint/Frizzen gap?
« on: September 23, 2009, 04:01:40 AM »
Is there an ideal gap measurement between the flint (at half cock) and the frizzen?  Is it ok to put a wood sliver/shim behind the flint to keep a proper gap?
Thank-ye in advance....
 ???

Daryl

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 04:21:24 AM »
flint frizzen gap is dependent on the lock/tumber lettup.  L&R locks are close at 1/2 bent, however some, like Chamber's locks are much farther away.  To try to touch the frizzen at 1/2 bent with a Chambers lock, would put the flint way to far out and destroy the angle of attack on the frizzen's surface, I'd think.

VtBlackdog

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 06:43:30 PM »

Is there an ideal gap measurement between the flint (at half cock) and the frizzen?
Is it ok to put a wood sliver/shim behind the flint to keep a proper gap?


Then after they're worn so short the edge is so far back into the thick part of the slope there's not a thin enough cutting edge left anyway, and it goes into the used flint jar.

I think thats the point I"m at, thanks for the help :)

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 07:59:25 PM »
You can use a piece of wood to shim behind a worn flint to keep it firm in the jaws and it will work as long as you can still clamp it and it has an edge of sorts.  Just make the wood piece the right thickness and use soft pine and the flint will dig into it.  Rigidity of the flint in the jaws is really important for good sparks and long flint life.
Andover, Vermont

VtBlackdog

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2009, 04:13:11 AM »
I forgot to mention, its an L&R "Classic"

It seems that the reccomended #6 English flint starts out ok, but then gets too short in a short time, and is a bit too wide.....is there one a bit longer/more narrow?

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2009, 05:08:46 AM »
I have the same lock - built by Vance, before L & R took it over.  It likes the 3/4" long English flint.  The flints are about 7/8" long and 3/4" wide.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 05:16:18 AM »
Yup -- #6.  That's the one.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Walks with Fire

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 08:07:01 AM »
I use the 6s for my L&R lock that came on my RMC Accusporter flinter with the 1/28 twist barrel. It works perfect for me. The fit the lock well but do seem a little on the small side; they still get over 50 shots per flint on average.

Offline Artificer

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 09:28:07 AM »
Roundball's advice to have the flint use a slight shaving angle is a truly important point to a flinter working well and fast.  He wrote about it succinctly but thoroughly and it couldn't be more important.  Many people don't understand that.  It is a bit of a mystery even to some experienced percussion rifle shooters.

When I "came back" to doing Rev War re-enacting in the mid 90's (after having done it in the late 70's) I was very much surprised that many Rev War re-enactors had problems getting their muskets to fire with some sureity.  Good heavens if any flintlock should work well, it should be a huge military lock with those extremely strong mainsprings, big flints and large steels (frizzens).  After my first re-enactment as a member of the Major's Coy, of the Black Watch - some of even the more experienced members came up and told me they were surprised I didn't have any problems with my musket going off and how fast I could load and fire.  (For my first couple of years with them, they kept forgetting I had done it almost 20 years before.) 

One of the reasons was how poorly so many of the frizzens fit the pans.  They didn't have the Japanese Besses when I first did Rev War reenacting and the early Itallian Besses we had and I still used, fit much better.   When they put powder in the pan and "Cast About" as in the Drill Manual, much if not most of powder was slung out of the pan between the opening from the top of the pan and the bottom of the frizzen.  I wound up refitting and re-hardening and annealing almost every frizzen in the unit.   But, that didn't completely cure the problem.  What I also didn't know at first was so many of even the experienced re-enactors didn't know how to choose a flint to get the lock to work like Roundball mentioned.

We had quite a few members who spent the extra money to buy some of the few original 18th century French Musket Flints that were still available.  They thought buying original flints, which were made for muskets in the day, would take care of the problem.  Instead, those flints were so long for most reproduction locks, that they hammered the frizzen and produced few if any sparks, like Roundball mentioned.  They also had problems with flints breaking in the jaws of the cock and that was also caused by the flints being too long. 

I know some people have good luck using the lead wraps for flints in musket locks, but for whatever reason they never worked well for me.  Maybe it was I was used to using different thickness of leather to hold flints and I wet formed the leather for each lock.  So what I did for our members was find the size leather wrap and flint that worked best for each lock.  Instead of those huge original French Musket Flints, most of the Japanese Besses worked better with a thick leather wrap and a Track of the Wolf 7/8" or 1" flint, which surprised me a bit and took me a bit to figure out. Then I gave them some pieces of leather that fit their lock and wrote down and gave them EXACTLY which size of flint best fit their individual lock.  After that, most of our guys got through a whole batttle reenactment without having to change the flints.  Re-enactors fire a LOT more than they did in the original "live fire" battles and we sometimes got as many as 35 to 50 shots out of a flint after that, without knapping the flint in the lock or doing anything to the flint.   

Offline hanshi

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 06:49:01 PM »
At one time I installed my flints bevel down to get them the right distance from the frizzen.  What happened was they tended to wear a groove in the frizzen face until the flint wore down enough to strike at the proper angle.  I now install all flints bevel up until they become too short as Roundball suggests.  By then flipping them bevel down it's almost like having a longer flint.
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VtBlackdog

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Re: Flint/Frizzen gap?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 09:23:24 PM »
yup, #6

think I"ll order a few #7 just to try them.....thanks again for the insights here :D



(Ps, I"ve finally gotten my cleaning procedure down, thanks to members here!)