Flintlock Rigby style target rifle

[577SXS]

Has anyone built a flintlock version of the Rigby target rifle? I love the looks of the percussion gun but I'm thinking of doing one in flintlock. If anyone has photos of one I'd love to see them.

Sam

[Daryl]

Top one, in 6 bore.

[577SXS]

I'm talking about the target rifle.

[577SXS]

It would also be called a Gibbs rifle.

[Daryl]

Yeah- I know. That's why the  .

I severely doubt there were ever ANY flint English match bullet shooting rifles, nor American, for that matter.

You could always make the first one, just like this but with a flint lock & flint patent breech.

[577SXS]

Thanks Daryl, I just might make the first one. Looks like a simple build. Pecatonica and Jedediah Trading list the same kit it looks like. Stock isn't inlet so I could just buy everything except the lock and use a good flintlock lock like a Kibler Ketland.

Sam

[577SXS]

Funny thing I just looked at my August MuzzleBlasts magazine and page 10 has an article on the Gibbs.

[T*O*F]

I just might make the first one. Looks like a simple build.

As the man on the radio used to say, "I'm Paul Harvey and I've got news for you."  Building a proper English target rifle is fairly complex using fully matched components in a kit like Rod England sells.  There is nothing "rigbyish" with Pecatonica's kit other than the name, trigger assembly, and buttplate.

[Bob Roller]

A half stock flintlock rifle with a bullet barrel to launch bullets of 500 or more grains can be easily built but I wonder about the burn out of the flash hole.Using 100 grains of 2 or 3fg would be like a start  up on a small jet engine with every shot and I"d think rapid erosion would occur.I THINK this was discussed long ago on the old LRML forum but I don't know if anyone ever tried it.
Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi,
I believe Bob is right.  The pressure at the vent might wear it out very quickly like it does to percussion nipples that are not platinum lined.  Moreover the loss of gas and its effect on accuracy may make the Rigby rifling superfluous. Now Sam, if all you are interested in is the stock architecture then there may be some late flint era Purdey's with early style pistol grips but I have not seen one. 

dave

[smylee grouch]

Well this is about as far as I've got but hope to finish it this winter. Not a half stock nor target gun but it will have a pistol grip and flintlock.  66 cal. fullstock.

[Bill Raby]

   Would shooting long, heavy bullets have an effect on a stainless steel vent liner? It is not something that I had thought of. Would a flintlock target rifle be better off just sticking with round ball shooting and a slow twist barrel?

[Daryl]

   Would shooting long, heavy bullets have an effect on a stainless steel vent liner? It is not something that I had thought of. Would a flintlock target rifle be better off just sticking with round ball shooting and a slow twist barrel?

Same as stainless nipples, I would expect, however the vent would have to be larger than the flash hole in a stainless nipple, just for reliable ignition. Thus, the hole would start larger, more flame and likely wear out more quickly. Just a guess.
Good point, Dave.

Smylee Grouch - a 16 bore flint rifle will make a GREAT bear, dear, elk and moose rifle.

[Craig Wilcox]

Platinum is currently selling for $936/ozT, so not too awfully great.  You'd need about  1/2 oz, but I would have no idea of what shape that half-ounce would need to have for a touch hole.  Probably a piece of 3/8" rod would do it.

[Bob Roller]

Looking back into the development of rifles it seems to me the development of the percussion cap made possible the extreme range rifles of Whitworth and others that followed him.The elongated projectile has proven beyond any doubt that it is a superior configuration for flights of long distance.A big round ball that weighs 500 grains or more with a heavy powder charge is a potent
thing and ideal for a close up shot and a one shot kill on bear or large cats like a lion that consider people as a menu item but it is not a long range load as we think of long range today.
  The full stock with a pistol grip is not unknown.I recently saw a picture of a semi military 451 stocked like that and I thought it was really good looking rifle.I think it belonged to a German shooter,the rifle was English with what appeared to be a Brazier lock with a sliding safety in front of the hammer and long range sights.

Bob Roller @ 5AM @1 September 2021

[BruceH]

Is this what you are looking for?  I just finished building this one.  Kibler Ketland lock and 50 caliber Green Mountain barrel.












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[BruceH]

Here are a few pictures of a sampling of pistol grip match rifles and even an Escopeta.

[bob in the woods]

If you build one it won't be the first. Perhaps the second, since I did this almost 20 years ago.
The barrel was a shallow groove .45 cal , and made for paper patch bullets. I made a false muzzle for it to allow easy and aligned seating of the 535 gr PP bullets .
I shot this rifle extensively in the 1000 yard matches in Ottawa as a member of the DCRA.
Basic rules were 2 sighters on target which you could convert if you wanted to, with 10 shots for score. The elevation drop after  30 shots or so was enough to drop you from a 4 to a 3 , but elevation loss was not the only problem since accuracy in general was impaired. I found that it was best to change the touch hole liner after every 1000 yard target shot, or after 2 targets if shooting  at lesser ranges.  Berylium copper liners seemed to last better than  stainless steel.  Part of the general accuracy loss was I believe partly due to the variable of the ignition system itself as the touch hole size changed.  Don't forget a good flash shield to protect the shooter on the line beside you.   

[577SXS]

OK it might make more since to just build the percussion gun. Didn't really think about the probably higher pressures with bullets and the gas coming out of the vent. Thanks for all the replies.

Sam

[577SXS]

Does anyone know where I can get one of the Rod England kits?

Sam

[Daryl]

Thanks for the post, Bob. Kinda puts the subject of a fling bullet rifle in perspective.

[T*O*F]

Didn't really think about the probably higher pressures with bullets and the gas coming out of the vent.

That's not the only reason.  A properly made percussion rifle has a platinum lined nipple which sets flush on a seat.  The hole in the platinum is needle sized and there is no blowback of the hammer to cause erosion.  This keeps the fps velocity variation to a minimum.  Any nipple that doesn't have a seat will be open to the flash channel leading to rapid nipple erosion and hammer blowback.  Any fps variation at long range leads to inconsistent shot placement.

The Pecatonica setup doesn't have this feature and will eat a nipple in as few as 10 shots or less.  I suspect that those who build these kits are not competitors.  I built mine in .38 caliber, not only to reduce recoil, but also to be able to shoot a lighter bullet with less powder to avoid some of the erosion problems.

[deepcreekdale]

   Would shooting long, heavy bullets have an effect on a stainless steel vent liner? It is not something that I had thought of. Would a flintlock target rifle be better off just sticking with round ball shooting and a slow twist barrel?

It is the pressures that get developed with heavy bullets and the large charges needed to effectively shoot them in fast twist barrels that burn out the nipples, not the bullets themselves. You need to use Platinum lined nipples for those . They are about $70.00 each at Buffalo Arms.