Next patch lube...

[William Worth]

Now I'm trying RV Anti-freeze as a patch lube.... or at least a between shot wipe solution.  Some attributes that caught my attention include;

1.  It's non-toxic.  It's used to winterize potable water systems.

2.  Other uses for the main ingredient (propylene glycol) are as a moisturizer,
     that's a plus.
 
3.  It's water miscible.

4.  It's corrosion inhibited.

5.  It's sold by the gallon.

[steg49]

Why??? I just read the lable on Prestone it says Do not drink (da), but it also says do not breathe mist or vapors, avoid prolong exposure, avoid skin and eye contact. It does kill condors if they drink it so it's good for something but I would not use it.  I try to keep chemical contact to a minimum.  A little dish washing soap and water cleans mine between shots. steg49

[doulos]

Steg
I think you misread his post .He said RV anti freeze which is different. I used to use it in my hunting camp water system. Its not toxic.

[steg49]

Ya, I guess I went off half-cocked, not familiar with RV stuff, but still, anti-freeze? I guess the old timers would say "if you have it use it".  I can just here Davy Crockett say " Hay Joe my rifle is getting hard to load, would you pass the anti-freeze".  All in good fun, I'm enjoying this web site, thanks for setting me straight.  steg49

[AZ Longrifle]

Please let us know how well it works.
I was going to try "Oil of Wintergreen" from the Drug store.
If you smell the cans of RMC OxYoke,patches, that is what they smell like.

[Roger Fisher]

Spit!    (If its good enough for Jenna, its good enough for me)

[Dphariss]

When one starts to play with chemicals one must be careful what chemicals are mixed.
I seriously doubt that there would be a problem with the rv anti-freeze (I think its a component of Mountain Dew, the soft drink that is) but wonder jsut the same since there are other things in there as well.
I know water will not cause problems or water with some soap, so long as the soap is rinsed out. But I don't use this stuff for patch lube either.
I figure if animal oils like bear oil, sperm whale were OK for Ned Roberts when he was a kid it will work OK for me too.
But I don't expect to shoot all day without wiping and don't want to.
But its a choice and everyone finds what works/what they like.

Dan

[William Worth]

Speaking of mixing chemicals, there may be corrosion potential even using original formula LeHigh Valley Lube.  A few weeks ago I gave my .54 flint Lyman Deerstalker a conditioning swipe with a patch wetted with LHV thinking to fire it later in the day.  Several days passed and the next patch I ran in there came out with LOTS of rust on the only the lands.  Fortunately it was only surface rust and I got it all wiped off.  I've never seen LHV do this before and it was even stranger that it was so aggressive.  I'm thinking that maybe RIG (which was in the barrel) and LHV must not play together well. 

Even when I find a patch lube that works, I like to go on experimenting with others.

[Daryl]

William - in between each shot, I'm loading.  I reserve the  wiping or cleaning for when the shooting's over. As Roger, spit seems to work as well as anything for a patch lube, and has the added benefit of not requiring as much powder be used for the accuracy load as the more slippery lubes.

[William Worth]

...Oh...and I forgot, attribute #6.  It doesn't freeze.  

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Be careful with rust.  Rust is steel/iron cancer.  Even a little is bad.  It frosts the surface, making it more prone for a repeat attack.  Like cancer, it has to be cut out.  If you find a tiny film of rust on a dry patch several days/weeks/ after cleaning, scour the bore with OOOO steel wool on a tight jag, or a smaller jag and a square of scotch brite.  Keep your bore completely free of rust.
When my late friend Peter Nicholson got started in muzzleloaders, I told him to clean with hot water out of the tap, because that's how I did it at that time.  He interpreted that to mean the hotter the better, so he used water just off the boil.  He flash rusted his bore every time he cleaned it.  He sure got the fouling out, but he introduced iron cancer, and it got worse and worse until he nearly ruined that Getz .40 cal barrel before he told me about it.  Daryl and I spent several days lapping the bore, and we eventually got it smooth enough that it can be shot all day without cleaning, but it was almost lost.
I now use only cold water, and now I do not get any brown on my patches.  My rifle bores are a lot happier.

[Dphariss]

Be careful with rust.  Rust is steel/iron cancer.  Even a little is bad.  It frosts the surface, making it more prone for a repeat attack.  Like cancer, it has to be cut out.  If you find a tiny film of rust on a dry patch several days/weeks/ after cleaning, scour the bore with OOOO steel wool on a tight jag, or a smaller jag and a square of scotch brite.  Keep your bore completely free of rust.
When my late friend Peter Nicholson got started in muzzleloaders, I told him to clean with hot water out of the tap, because that's how I did it at that time.  He interpreted that to mean the hotter the better, so he used water just off the boil.  He flash rusted his bore every time he cleaned it.  He sure got the fouling out, but he introduced iron cancer, and it got worse and worse until he nearly ruined that Getz .40 cal barrel before he told me about it.  Daryl and I spent several days lapping the bore, and we eventually got it smooth enough that it can be shot all day without cleaning, but it was almost lost.
I now use only cold water, and now I do not get any brown on my patches.  My rifle bores are a lot happier.

The use of the corrosive substitute powders makes this even worse. They are very insidious, most people won't see the pitting until it so bad that the bore fouls horribly when BP is used. The fouling left behind by these will even rust under an oil film. BP fouling generally will not. If the oil get down to the steel.
The hot water clean is a real demon, though kinda subtle until its bad enough to notice. Lots of people think or like you and I *used to think* was needed. Water over 100 degrees or so is just too hot for me.
I have a rifle I made for my son when he was 12. It needs to be scrubbed out well or lapped lightly. It does not foul really bad but its hard to clean (another key indicator) and does not shoot as well as it should IMO.
I suspect he skipped a step in cleaning at some time....

Dan
Dan

[Danny Jones]

Has anyone tried saddle soap as a patch lube? "Mild soap, neatsfoot oil, lanolin, and glycerin" are listed as some ingrediants. It stays pretty soft and should not affect a barrel. Just a thought as I was working on some leather goods.   Dannylj

[sniper68]

I forgot all about saddle soap. I used it for a while in the 60's, until my Dad found out and got mad for wasting HIS saddle soap.. A best I can remember it worked pretty well.
I've used Go Jo since the late 70's. Works great for me....

[William Worth]

Initial results with the RV Anti-Freeze were not promising, but there may have been unrelated issues with starch in my patches.  Shots were not grouping well at all, then I went back to orginal formula LHV (and other patch material) the groups went right back to groups instead of patterns.  I find a 50 yd, 12 inch "group" to be badly unacceptable.  But I still need to do better testing.  I was using a patch batch of ticking that I inadvertantly starched with a starch contaminated iron.  They were like potato chips.

I tried glycerin once, LOTS of fouling...

I wonder how acidic cleaners like GO-JO are?  I was shocked, SHOCKED I say, when I found the pH of Pine-Sol to be 3-4.  no wonder my barrel turned black after a few shots using a strong solution of it.

OK, I found an MSDS for the green Go-Jo, it says pH of 5.0-9.0....I would try to buffer it with some KOH solution but my hand-me-down pH meter is about as reliable as a crack whore on the witness stand...

[Daryl]

Ok - please explain, what pH is nexcessary? What does it do?

[William Worth]

I would like to see the pH of a patch lube be in the range of from 7.0-8.0.  Too acidic and it will eat the barrel, too basic and it will strip the finish off of a stock.

[Daryl]

oh?- so for guys like me without chemistry degrees, spit works fine, as does mink oil. I'm going to try some other 'stuff' ow and again, though.

[sniper68]

I wonder how acidic cleaners like GO-JO are?  I was shocked, SHOCKED I say, when I found the pH of Pine-Sol to be 3-4.  no wonder my barrel turned black after a few shots using a strong solution of it.

OK, I found an MSDS for the green Go-Jo, it says pH of 5.0-9.0....I would try to buffer it with some KOH solution but my hand-me-down pH meter is about as reliable as a crack whore on the witness stand...

I've only ever used the regular "white" Go Jo. It also is one great barrel cleaner.

[William Worth]

Heck Daryl, I would think that anyone that grew up with the metric system is already half way to being a chemist.

[Pvt. Lon Grifle]

I like my old standby of beeswax and rendered racoon lard. But the older I get the fewer racoons I get so I have to go around the hunt club begging for coons.   

I sure would like a quart of nice clear rendered racoon fat.  Lon

[Daryl]

Heck Daryl, I would think that anyone that grew up with the metric system is already half way to being a chemist.

heh, heh - william, william, william, We did not grow up in the metric system. Actually was in my 20's ,when P. E. Trudeau,  forced that system upon our shoulders. In many measurements, I am bilingual, though - does that make me a Dr?

In the first week of being in Grade 3, our teacher, Miss Kuntz drew a line on the blackboard and said that the skinny line was about 3 milimeters wide. I said out loud, 'that's huge, my Dad showed me what 3 thousanths of an inch looked like and I could hardly see it, it was so skinny. I promptly got the strap for that and 'things' between us went down hill rather promptly.  I've always hated the metric system since that time.  'Course, that was only the first time I got the strap in grade 3.  Little Johnny and I were very similar, I think. 

[William Worth]

Miss Kuntz must have been related to the ever elusive Dick Hurtz that would sign the assigned seating chart when a substitute teacher would try to enforce a chaotic, assigned seating situation.

"Dick Hurtz!"  "Dick Hurtz!!"  "Who's Dick Hurtz?"

[Dancy]

Found a bottle of "ol' Griz" lube by the Hawken Shop in a box in my basement, anybody used that before? Any good? Smells like ammonia with a little soap in it to me.

James

[Pete G.]

Ballistol and water. Every shot cleans the fouling from the shot before, just about as slippery as spit. A little more expensive than spit, but not much.