Author Topic: Do we have a Lock Builder on here  (Read 2205 times)

Offline Clint

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2021, 03:24:46 AM »
I just checked out your website and I am going to say that there is no reason that you shouldn't build this lock ,yourself The critical aspect of lock building is drilling holes to 90 degrees to the lock plate. a good drill press is vital. Get some #4 screw blanks from brownells (which are slightly oversize) and give it a try. I am currently writing instructions on how to assembly a flint lock, but it is time consuming to photo and gate projects keep getting in the way. Start with the frizzen and work back. PM me for photos
Clint

Offline D. Keith Lisle

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2021, 03:54:29 AM »
Well, I think i could most likely do it. May not spark tho ?  >:( ;D ;D ;D
But it is not a cheap lock & I don't want to screw up something I have to wait 6 mo on
part to replace.
Now if it were a Siler or something with readily avail parts, I could just call Jim & say,
"Hey, I need another tumbler", whole dif ball game. 

I'm not sure I have the patience to build it. Oh I have honed & polished & slicked up allot
of them, but not built one from start to finish.  What would really be bad is if I find I LIKE
doing it  !  :o  I have absolutely No Room for another hobby.   

But I have decided before I do anything on this lock, I have to find a Fitting rifle for it. 

I knew Bob was about done building locks.  But didn't know if anyone else on here did or not.


Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2021, 04:13:58 AM »
Most of the parts I can figure out the proper placement. However, I am having a hard time visualizing how timing the cock is done.
Psalms 144

Offline rich pierce

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Andover, Vermont

Online Bob Roller

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2021, 02:36:24 PM »
These are good tutorials and give the builder the advantage of preformed parts.
I never tried this with the mechanism that IS the lock and always worked from
solid materials.This will give anyone a real idea about MAKING a lock or anything
else from steel.
Bob Roller

Online Bob Roller

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2021, 03:06:44 PM »
Most of the parts I can figure out the proper placement. However, I am having a hard time visualizing how timing the cock is BobB
done.
TIMING the cock? I have no idea what that is.In most locks there are 2 internal springs and a rotating part called a tumbler,a lid called a bridle and a latch called the sear.The mechanism makes only semi circular movements.It is fastened by screws.What needs timed?
Bob Roller

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2021, 05:28:19 PM »
Timing the cock likely means setting the cock on the tumbler - filing the square shaft for the cock - so that at rest the mainspring hook is right at the toe of the tumbler for maximum leverage.
Andover, Vermont

Online Bob Roller

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2021, 09:31:35 PM »
Timing the cock likely means setting the cock on the tumbler - filing the square shaft for the cock - so that at rest the mainspring hook is right at the toe of the tumbler for maximum leverage.

USUALLY on these cast parts the tumbler has flats that can be cleaned with a safe edged flat file and the cock will have a noticeable witness area as well.If neither are there then I have no ideas of any benefit.
Bob Roller

17 Oct,2021
This lock uses a linked main spring so it will have to be in place in the lock to position the cock on the tumbler shank.That means the bridle and tumbler will have to be in position as in final assembly.
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 03:10:59 AM by Bob Roller »

Offline D. Keith Lisle

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2021, 10:12:37 PM »
To me, timing the Cock would be having the tumbler in the stopped position, & the Cock on the the stop position against the lockplate.   BUT...... I am not a lock builder, I just monkey with them now & then when I have issues with one. 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 12:51:57 AM by D. Keith Lisle »

Offline Clint

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2021, 12:49:23 AM »
The first thing to consider in 'timing' a flint cock is locating the the tumbler on the lock plate.  I like to drill the flintcock with a drill that will just let the cock screw slide through. Position the cock on the plate so that the shoulder is firmly on the plate bolster and the lower jaw is hovering just over the fence. There is usually a 'shadow' of some sort on the plate casting If you reach through the cock screw hole with a small scribe and mark the plate, you should see a mark that is very close to the tumbler hole shadow. Assuming that the tumbler is cleaned up ant the two journals are in line, drill ever so slightly smaller for the tumbler shaft.Ream the hole until the tumbler almost fits and finish the fit up with fine valve grinding compound. put the tumbler through the plate and screw the cock to the surface of the tumbler. Put the cock at the down position and adjust the tumbler so that the angle of the spring ramp is right around 45 degrees down. If you dare to make it steeper, the flintcock pull will be heavy, if the angle is too flat the spring may run into the bolster and prevent a full cock draw. Get it where it looks best and make a cup of coffee. Look at a lot of pictures and when every thing is cool, reach between the lock plate and the cock and mark the square drive with a small hook scribe. It's not hard. CW

Offline D. Keith Lisle

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2021, 02:03:05 AM »
To me it sounds like a PITA 🤣🤣🤣. No way I have patience to do all of that with every
part of the lock. 🤷🏻

Offline Daryl

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2021, 02:56:38 AM »
To me, timing the Cock (it is called a Hammer) would be having the tumbler in the stopped position & the hammer in the stop position against the lockplate.   BUT...... I am not a lock builder, I just monkey with them now & then when I have issues with one.

I think you mean the frizzen is/was called the hammer, not the cock.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline D. Keith Lisle

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2021, 03:25:04 AM »
Yep 🙄. Went brain dead there for a moment. 🥴

Online Bob Roller

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2021, 03:30:41 AM »
The word 'frizzen" is said to be derived from the German word Fressen which goes to eating.
Shon zu fressen--Something to chew on.
Bob Roller

Online Bob Roller

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Re: Do we have a Lock Builder on here
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2021, 10:24:54 PM »
I have examined a number of these exquisite locks in my work and almost all of them,if they were used cars were very "low mileage" and I have seen some with NO scrapes on the frizzen face and obviously unused.These were the play things of the wealthy and seldom fired if ever.The mechanisms look flimsy and I have doubts about the durability of them.Works of fine art for sure but how durable.The John Manton lock that I examined almost 52 years ago looked substantial to me and as Tom Dawson said,it was "all business and no frills".It was the one that I used in 3 sizes on all the flint locks I ever made from then on.No more slip and slide mainspring to tumbler but a link and two screws counterbored in the top of the bridle and the sear screw in addition to the head set in a shallower counter bore also was buried below the surface of the lock plate with a stub thread and the thrust of the mainspring is against the smooth shank of the screw and not on the tiny 4x40 threads.
This is a proven design and many of my locks are in competition in Europe if not here and I had no qualms about sending them to people who would use them as intended.
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 02:54:53 AM by Bob Roller »