Author Topic: 45 flint pistol  (Read 1185 times)

Offline ed lundquist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
45 flint pistol
« on: October 13, 2021, 07:38:04 PM »








Finished this a couple months ago. It has an 11" swamped 45 cal. Bob Hoyt barrel, Bob Roller improved lock, a nice piece of hard maple from Tom Fornicola. Sterling inlays, brass escutcheons, sideplate, pipes, and nosecap by me. Remainder of parts sourced from the usual suspects. The lock is fast and it groups well, although I have not shot it very much.Constructive comments are appreciated and thanks to those who helped along the way.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10989
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2021, 08:00:14 PM »
Nice comfortable looking pistol.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Keith Zimmerman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2021, 08:04:39 PM »
Beautiful!

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7350
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 08:24:50 PM »
Fine job in spite of the lock ;D.Looks like the externals for the L&R small Manton.
Those parts I got from them were always very fine and I sincerely wish they could
do the same with the "engine".
Bob Roller

Offline Glenn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2021, 10:08:25 PM »
  Very beautifully done 👍
Many of them cried; "Me no Alamo - Me no Goliad", and for most of them these were the last words they spoke.

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4964
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 10:32:16 PM »
Beautiful pistol!
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5987
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2021, 10:50:53 PM »
Nice looking pistol. Looks substantial in your hand.  :)

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11346
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2021, 11:30:33 PM »
You need to spend some time studying lock panels on originals. It is otherwise nifty.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline ed lundquist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2021, 03:04:09 AM »
Thank you for the replies and compliments and thank you Mr Roller for your superb work. Mike, I have limited access to originals and not nearly as much reference as I would like. I do study what I have and have found that the work was rather inconsistent. I do strive to build pleasing, functional art and wonder where the fine points that I miss lay. I am going to look at your tutorial again and see if I can up my game.  I would be happy to have specifics from you as I value your expertise and that of many others here as well. I'll be happy with a qualified nifty for now. Thanks.






 


















Offline alacran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1212
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2021, 01:13:27 PM »
Ed that is a handsome pistol. I do have a question about the trigger. I like the L&R Manton lock, some are assembled better than others. They are very fast locks, and they don't torque as much as a small Siler. That being said they are hard to tune with a simple trigger.
Your trigger angles back quite a bit. Was this done to accommodate your reach?  How much pull weight?
I like the 11 inch barrel as it gives a long sight radius. Good Job.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7350
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2021, 02:34:41 PM »
Externally that is an L&R parts group.The lock is the mechanism that is out of sight behind theplate and that was made by me sometime ago.
Bob Roller

Offline ed lundquist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2021, 03:04:29 PM »
Alacran, as Bob pointed out, only the externals are original to the lock. The trigger has some play when the hammer is at rest which is taken up as you go thru half then full cock.

Offline ed lundquist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2021, 04:28:30 PM »






Bob asked me to post a picture of the lock internals. Here are the L&R and Bobs' for comparison.

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7350
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2021, 06:25:32 PM »
The lock I made shown here was inspired by a John Manton lock I saw in 1970 at Friendship.
It was a cased set and the lock was out in a compartment by itself and I looked at it closely.
I have made it in 2 or 3 different sizes and this is the midsize version.The L&R is a great looking
lock and I appreciate their help and cooperation in making these locks possible.They were mostly
rejected here in the USA because of my insisting on being paid for the time and effort it takes to make such a device.Germany was a very different story and over half of them are in Europe today.
Bob Roller

Offline BrianS

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2021, 06:32:31 PM »
Ed... I love it.  Similar to what I have conceived on my bench right now. Question: how did you affix the butt cap? Brass screw that has been polished smooth?

Offline BrianS

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2021, 06:34:40 PM »
You need to spend some time studying lock panels on originals. It is otherwise nifty.
Hi Mike. I don't think Ed will take offense, and I'd really like to learn.  Can you provide a bit more detail to that comment.  I'm working a similar project and still at the phase of refining a template and transfer to a block of wood.

Offline ed lundquist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2021, 07:45:54 PM »
Brian, yes it's on with a screw filed off. Thanks.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10989
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2021, 09:05:25 PM »
Brian, yes it's on with a screw filed off. Thanks.

Well, well, nicely done, Ed.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline ed lundquist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2021, 04:03:39 AM »
Thanks for the compliments. Daryl, Taylor mentioned the butt was squarish and I redid it with the cap and am pleased with the result thanks to him. Comments are great for me as I get too close to the work and often don't see the obvious or the sometimes not so obvious.

Offline alacran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1212
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2021, 01:48:46 PM »
Hello Ed, I somehow glossed over where you wrote that it was a Bob Roller modified lock. My attention turned to the photos.
Bob I did not mean to offend you, I do have one of your locks on a pistol that I made and the internals are a quantum leap from an L&R lock.
Ed that still doesn't answer my question about the position of the trigger so far back in the trigger guard. Also do you know what the pull weight is?
Again I think it is a handsome pistol.
I have Dyke's book on American flintlock pistols, as well as other books. One thing is clear in those sources, there is greater variety of style and execution than one would imagine.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7350
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2021, 03:12:42 PM »
Hello Ed, I somehow glossed over where you wrote that it was a Bob Roller modified lock. My attention turned to the photos.
Bob I did not mean to offend you, I do have one of your locks on a pistol that I made and the internals are a quantum leap from an L&R lock.
Ed that still doesn't answer my question about the position of the trigger so far back in the trigger guard. Also do you know what the pull weight is?
Again I think it is a handsome pistol.
I have Dyke's book on American flintlock pistols, as well as other books. One thing is clear in those sources, there is greater variety of style and execution than one would imagine.

Alacran,
NO offense taken and many,even on this forum don't seem to realize rhat the LOCK is the mechanism that is unseen when it's in the wood.That little spring driven "engine"should/MUST be very active with accurately fit
parts or it's not much use.The lock plate is a frame or chassis only.When I see the locks used on American rifles
and pistols ir says to me that utility grade is just fine.Compare these to the British locks and no utility grade there even in what they called "second quality".The British style locks are much more labor intensive but also much more satisfying to me as the maker and for the customer who buys it.The mechanisms I used in these L&R lock plates are my basic types and their external parts are the ideal vehicles for them.
Bob Roller

Offline ed lundquist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2021, 03:26:33 PM »


Here is a better shot of the trigger and yes It is back a bit in relation to the bow. The pull wt. I  have no scale to measure but it it more than on my other pistols likely due to Bobs' more robust sear spring. Maybe because makers built so few pistols each had its own learning curve, they do vary .

Offline alacran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1212
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2021, 12:29:55 PM »
Ed, on the first photos of the pistol that you posted, the trigger is laying back almost touching the trigger guard. That is why asked the question.
 On your latest photo the trigger is not in the same position, it appears to be mostly vertical and a normal distance from the from the front of the bow.
Maybe that is a result of the way it was photographed. However if there is that much play front to back in the trigger position, there is something wrong.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline ed lundquist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2021, 03:18:13 PM »
Alacran , I see what you're saying and I'm going to pull the trigger out and attempt to make a new one with less play. Thanks

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7350
Re: 45 flint pistol
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2021, 03:25:09 PM »
Ed,
Put a light upward tensioned spring under the release bar so the trigger can stay with the sear during the cocking cycle.
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 03:45:06 AM by Bob Roller »