fastener shortage

[Woodland]

Hey guys,

I have been reading in the posts about lock bolt shortages, and seem to be a bit confused.  I happen to own a fastener supply company.  I have not been into our offices for a few weeks so I just assumed there were shortages.  To my surprise this morning, I checked our manufacturers stock, and see no holes in supplies for #6, #8, #10 fasteners between 2" and 2-1/2".  I checked pan head, oval head, round head and truss head options in slotted drives.  No holes in supply.  Are we using a special alloy for locks?  I am assuming they are 1006 or 1022 alloy as that is the most common.  If someone who knows the specs for these could let me know, I have no problem ordering a case of each flavor and sending them out to whoever needs them.  I have always just ordered them from whoever I purchase my parts from as we don't have a ton of slotted fasteners that we stock in our warehouses, and it was just easier that way.  I hope I can help.

Jon

[Birddog6]

I think the issue was getting a unplated 6-32 lock screw with the large heads that are the same size as the 8-32 & 10-32 lock screws. And also same screws having aprox 1” of shaft unthreaded.  These particular screws are not the run of the mill screws.
A few guys wanted Any long 6-32 screws to get the by til the special ones are back in stock & I found  them some & mailed out 12 dozen of them. 

However, if you have these dome head screws as shown in 6-32, I am interested in 12 to 24 of each.
The large head is 3/8”  dome head & the small one is 5/16”.  ( head is not same as typical round head)



They also make a 6-32 screw like this.  But I don’t have one (photo is 8-32)

[Birddog6]

Also, these can easily be made out of rod stock or a 10-32 dome head lock screw on a small lathe on a CNC.
However, most don’t have access to either & it is cost prohibitive to have a machine shop with the proper machine turn you out a dozen 6-32 screws.

[45-110]

You do not need CNC set up to make a screw. Manual lathe yes or just forge one. Its hard to believe a gun "build" comes to a stop for lack of lock bolts. It is called "gun building" not gun assembly. If you do this for any length of time it is easy to justify a small lathe. For me there is nothing worse than cheap imported hardware store screws.
kw

[Bob Roller]

Yea,verily.The LAST sentence in this note says it all.
Bob Roller

[Birddog6]

Well, I guess it is just Where you want to spend your time.  I have 4 old lathes here. A old LeBlond, a Jett Machinist lathe, a small Sears lathe, and a 20" Atlas like they had on the Yorktown. Nothing bores me more than turning a piece of metal in a lathe. I do it when I have to, but when I do I am thinking of 49 other things I should be doing on that rifle rather than wasting time using that lathe. Especially for a Screw ?  I'd rather just buy a screw & go on. 
I've made Triggerguards, Triggers, Buttplates, Sights, Sideplates, Nosecaps, Underlugs, etc.  Using a lathe ? I just Despise it.    I've made every part of the rifle except the Lock & the Barrel.   

Everyone has their own Druthers......

[Bob Roller]

I think the issue was getting a unplated 6-32 lock screw with the large heads that are the same size as the 8-32 & 10-32 lock screws. And also same screws having aprox 1” of shaft unthreaded.  These particular screws are not the run of the mill screws.
A few guys wanted Any long 6-32 screws to get the by til the special ones are back in stock & I found  them some & mailed out 12 dozen of them. 

However, if you have these dome head screws as shown in 6-32, I am interested in 12 to 24 of each.
The large head is 3/8”  dome head & the small one is 5/16”.  ( head is not same as typical round head)



They also make a 6-32 screw like this.  But I don’t have one (photo is 8-32)

Those are good looking screws and I have made them in the past and make the slots a "V" shape like a lot of the antique styles. I am going to make a couple today and do a time study with a new sharpened tool and 12L14 which machines with little effort.I have an Atlas 618 lathe I altered in 1974 for screw making af all kinds used in locks,triggers or whatever was needed.These types of screws are purpose driven and there is seldom any need for 2 and 7/8" of threads on a 3" screw
Bob Roller

[Denny]

Bob,

I have an Atlas 618 that I use for small turnings. How did you modify your lathe for screw making? Pictures please?

Thank you,
Denny

[45-110]

One does not have to thread on a lathe, make the screw blank and use a die holder on tailstock . Thread the shank only as much as you need.
kw

[James Rogers]

One does not have to thread on a lathe, make the screw blank and use a die holder on tailstock . Thread the shank only as much as you need.
kw

True, if one has threading dies. Most have chasers.

[Bob Roller]

One does not have to thread on a lathe, make the screw blank and use a die holder on tailstock . Thread the shank only as much as you need.
kw

The only things I would thread on a lathe would be something with a square thread or an Acme with a 27.5 degree included angle.In the last hour I made 4 of these cross screws from bar stock,12L14 3/8" diameter.
The involved time included rummaging around and looking for a 6x32 theading die, a size I have no use for or
need of.These 4 scews are 2" long with and 1inch of threads and polished heads with hand cut slots finished with a British slotting file with a VERY acute angle.This is a VERY BORING job.Two 6x32' and two 8x32's--$20 and like the triggers,IF i make any more odd screws I will post them here and NO up front pay for any reason.
Bob Roller

[45-110]

Why would a "gun builder" not have a few thread dies? Almost inconceivable!

[Clark Badgett]

If you don’t ham hand it, you can even single point cut them.

[Bob Roller]

Why would a "gun builder" not have a few thread dies? Almost inconceivable!

Many on this forum have had NO experience with machinery or ANY kind of threading dies and have no idea as to what is involved with making even simple things like a screw.I have been involved with machine tools for about 60 years and have been able to support myself and family meaning one wife and two sons and a dog .
I'm apalled at some of the methods I see suggested here but also know that necessity is the mother of invention and won't ridicule anyone.Even a man with an unlimited money supply that
has a lot of machines will have little if any ability to use them for any purpose.
Before I got involved with machine shops I worked in various garages,the first was a specialty shop that sold English cars and maintained a dedicated area for Auburn-Cord and Duesenberg cars.I started at age 16 and by the time I was 17 I had replaced all 32 valves in a Duesenberg head that also had 2 cams that HAD to have the clearences at .025 on all 32 valves.My personal car then was a 1935 Packard Super 8 but it needed little more than a brake adjustment once in a while.In 1956 I bought a 1937 cadillac V12 and did a "ring and valve job" on it and drove it for 2 years before I sold it.After a time in the Army I got involved in machine shops and my interest was stirred much earlier in 1953when I met Bill Large and I was able to learn a LOT from him and a
man near here who was Glen Napier who got me interested in bench skills with hand tools of all kinds.
I draw on all these past experiences to do what I do now and am glad I still can at age 85.
Another interest is/was vintage aircraft and had the opportunity to work at an airport near here with a man who knew some of the oddities of aviation like "Wrong Way Corrigan" who when refused permission to fly to France like Lindberg,filed a flight plan for Los Angeles and ended up in Dublin,Ireland. .His name was Lou Musgrove
and he had over 22,000 hours flying time and multi engine ratings for both land and sea planes.From him I learned a glide can not be stretched and the 2nd engine will get you to the scene of the accident every time !
For 9 years I was in a local flying club and it was mostly vintage planes and my favorire was a Cessna 195 with a 7 cylinder Jacobs engine earned us "thank you notes"* from the Arabs because of the oil consumption.We put in new rings on all 7 cylinders and that was helpful.Also had a brief job with a coal company who needed help maintaing two planes,a Lockheed Lodestar that was called a "Lodestone" because it was heavy and under powered and an AeroCommander 680 twin engine hot rod I really liked but the company sold off the planes and I was out of a job briefly..
That is some of my life experience and I hope ir wasn't too  boring.
Bob Roller

[P.W.Berkuta]

Well, I guess it is just Where you want to spend your time.  I have 4 old lathes here. A old LeBlond, a Jett Machinist lathe, a small Sears lathe, and a 20" Atlas like they had on the Yorktown. Nothing bores me more than turning a piece of metal in a lathe. I do it when I have to, but when I do I am thinking of 49 other things I should be doing on that rifle rather than wasting time using that lathe. Especially for a Screw ?  I'd rather just buy a screw & go on. 
I've made Triggerguards, Triggers, Buttplates, Sights, Sideplates, Nosecaps, Underlugs, etc.  Using a lathe ? I just Despise it.    I've made every part of the rifle except the Lock & the Barrel.   

Everyone has their own Druthers......

Like you I would rather buy my lock bolts than make them. I do have a 12X36 Jet lathe and LOVE using it so making bolts or screws is not a problem it's just very time consuming and other parts of the build are more important to focus on. Not to mention it is a waste of money and material to chuck up a 3/8" or 5/16" 1018 piece of round stock and turn it down to a 0.136" X 2.000" or what ever diameter blank for threading is needed. I buy my lock bolts 2 dozen at a time when I run low - they don't go bad over time .

[Bob Roller]

Every once in a "while"a commodity runs low or out and those of us who have shops,machines,materials can bypass the "system" with ease.I would not even try to make a long flimsy #6 screw shank from 1018 for any reason. The 2 I made today from 12L14 were unsupported cuts* and no problems but as has been stated ,there ARE better things to do with time such as playing with my little Dachshund .
Bob Roller
* For the LAST cut,BEVEL the square end so the advancing tool will not have to engage a right angle.
On a .135 diameter shank 2 inches long it can be the thing that saves the job.

[Roger B]

Yep! Forget the screws, the dachshund needs a treat & a lap nap. They sleep so hard that they wake up exhausted & immediately need a nap!
Roger B.

[borderdogs]

Sounds like some empoyees I have
Rob

[Birddog6]

[Quote}Like you I would rather buy my lock bolts than make them. I do have a 12X36 Jet lathe and LOVE using it so making bolts or screws is not a problem it's just very time consuming and other parts of the build are more important to focus on. Not to mention it is a waste of money and material to chuck up a 3/8" or 5/16" 1018 piece of round stock and turn it down to a 0.136" X 2.000" or what ever diameter blank for threading is needed. I buy my lock bolts 2 dozen at a time when I run low - they don't go bad over time .
[/quote]

Exactly.  I would rather inlet a barrel or buttplate or inlet the lock or trigger rather than make screws.Some would rather do just the opposite.  I can make them & have, I just don't like doing it.

I had a fellow tell me one time about all this Free time I have, and he has None.  We all have 24 hrs a day,  it is up
to YOU of how you decide to allot it to each thing in your life. 

[Woodland]

Sounds like some empoyees I have
Rob

I bet every business owner here can relate!

[Bob Roller]

Any time I spend in the shop making ANYTHING I want it to reflect what I think of the buyer AND myself.
Bob Roller
 

[RAT]

I have a micro-lathe and use it to make screws all the time. But you don't need one. This isn't rocket science... it's a screw. You can make a 6-32 screw out of an 8-32 screw with nothing more than a file and a threading die. Just file opposing flats on an 8-32 screw shaft. First to make it square, then octagon, then 16 sided, and finally somewhat round. Keep checking it often to make sure you don't take too much off. Some of the 8-32 thread will remain. This helps to start the die straight. Simply re-cut the threads with the die.

[Jerry V Lape]

Time to review James Everett Wilson's information on screw making plates.   
 

[Bob Roller]

I have a micro-lathe and use it to make screws all the time. But you don't need one. This isn't rocket science... it's a screw. You can make a 6-32 screw out of an 8-32 screw with nothing more than a file and a threading die. Just file opposing flats on an 8-32 screw shaft. First to make it square, then octagon, then 16 sided, and finally somewhat round. Keep checking it often to make sure you don't take too much off. Some of the 8-32 thread will remain. This helps to start the die straight. Simply re-cut the threads with the die.

THAT is the method to labor mightily and bring forth a mouse to quote and old line from??
A longer than needed 8x32 can be short chucked in an electric drill and the with the drill locked in the constant run position and a sharp file applied to the spinning screw and VERY quickly a useable shank for the 6x32
will appear.A micrometer or dial caliper is useful here and is better that the calibrated eyeball. I made two 6x32's and two 8x32's the day before yesterday and spent more time finding the 6x32 die than in making the screws.
Bob Roller

[Craig Wilcox]

Keith, I'd be happy taking one of your lathes and giving you more room in your shop...

I lucked into a fair number of 6 x 32 and 8 x 32 screws last year; mailed a few out to someone on the forum needing a pair.  Most guys here on the forum would do the same thing.  I do get a lift helping another gun builder as I have had so many help me.