Author Topic: real or not (Read 3616 times)

Eric Krewson · « **on:** October 26, 2021, 02:16:33 AM »

A guy contacted me about a rifle he was trying to sell for a widow whose late husband had collected a number of various guns new and old. The gun is signed WM Buchele, he said the man bought it from Track.

I don't know anything about WM Buchele rifles except that I looked one over very closely at the Ala. Kentucky Longrifle show.

This doesn't look right to me, what say you guys. This is marked as a bicentennial rifle 1776/1976.

Signature

The real deal;

Daryl · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2021, 02:23:48 AM »

Looks to me like a 1970's poorly made 'replica' of a ML.

Top Jaw · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2021, 12:01:23 PM »

Not much about it resembles Buchele’s work. Unless he made it at the very end of his life when he was old and his skills had almost gone (he did die in 1977). And all of his guns that I’ve seen had much lighter stain than this one does. Like the one you have pictured below. I’d say it’s a poorly done imitation of a Buchele. But a few more pics would be nice. Or perhaps it was a gun he had started, and someone else completed it

Bob Roller · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2021, 02:28:06 PM »

Raise carved rifles were the joy in Mr Buchele"s life and I have talked ro him at gun shows at
various times. His name is pronounced "BUCKLY* and NOT Buschelle.I recall making a flintlock
for him and he said he wanted it because he could see that I put a lot of effort into it.I don't know if
it ever was used in a rifle or not.
Bob Roller

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2021, 04:00:08 PM »

lets see if this works;

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPv4_UnBrmN5d_7_WaHDDAHOVGSOryVlPIBOYNdwTCYEAm9IWOCyO-AGnhVzgz3FA?key=cWoxRk9DY1l1d0k0c29jNUFMZUtkZE1IbXNaMG1R

rich pierce · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2021, 04:34:19 PM »

Hard to say. If interested in the rifle I’d suggest evaluating it based on its merit not the signature. As time goes by and contemporary guns made 40-50 years ago come up for sale, there are fewer and fewer customers who remember and value a gun by a name builder from way back when, because of the name. There are exceptions of course. But now one. One could buy a Bivins for a lot less than 20 years ago, it seems, without even counting inflation or what a similar investment 20 years ago would be worth now if in the stock market. I buy what I like when I can while staying within my budget without much concern over resale value. Consequently I have just a few!

EC121 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2021, 05:05:42 PM »

Does the lock have his name on it?

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2021, 05:12:09 PM »

I am not the least bit interested in the rifle, I make my own. I think the rifle is much too poorly done to be authentic but wanted a few other opinions before I told the guy the gun might not be what they think it is.

I am really hung up on honesty and honor and hate to see someone who doesn't know better, end up with this rifle and an empty wallet.

As a bow maker I have seen way too many bows that wouldn't make good firewood being pawned off on someone who doesn't know bows for big bucks by the shyster that hacked them out.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2021, 05:13:06 PM »

The lock does have the name on it, the pictures in the link show it.

smokinbuck · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2021, 05:50:19 PM »

Obviously speculation on all our part but there are a number of glaring differences. The name difference is obvious but as was said if done in his later years may reflect his age at the time. The relief carving does not appear to be as sharp and well defined as on verified Buchele rifles. The color difference may indicate an imposter or could have been requested by the original owner, should not be a definite killer but could be. I personally would have to pass on this one unless unstated facts are known.

alyce-james · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2021, 06:08:01 PM »

Eric Krewson. Sir. I do not believe this is a Bushele rifle. Perhaps a poor copy? Thanks for sharing. Have a good week. AJ.

ed lundquist · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2021, 04:11:59 AM »

If the name were not on the barrel would you ever consider the gun had been made by him, or who?

Algae · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2021, 04:50:50 AM »

Excellant point, Ed

Al Jenkins

Cory Joe Stewart · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2021, 07:07:04 PM »

I wonder if the barrel was repurposed and the signature is legit? It is interesting that if someone was trying to fake one that they knew enough to know that the name would carry some weight and value.

Cory Joe

sespe · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2021, 05:11:34 AM »

Wow, something I can finally respond to. My Dad was a friend of Bill, and some of my childhood was spent making (ugly) patchbox blanks for him. Dad always wanted one of his rifles, and Mom somehow finagled it back in the 70's. I inherited it from my older brother. So this is a mid to late 70's Buchele rifle. It sat in a leather sheath for over 30 years in a northern Ohio basement, so I've been slowly cleaning it up. it wasn't a wall-hanger, I know Dad shot it in competition, and his Walter Cain rifle for hunting.

sespe · « **Reply #15 on:** October 29, 2021, 05:47:03 AM »

Quote from: Bob Roller on October 26, 2021, 02:28:06 PM

Raise carved rifles were the joy in Mr Buchele"s life and I have talked ro him at gun shows at
various times. His name is pronounced "BUCKLY* and NOT Buschelle.I recall making a flintlock
for him and he said he wanted it because he could see that I put a lot of effort into it.I don't know if
it ever was used in a rifle or not.
Bob Roller

OK, so this just got interesting. When taking the above pictures I noticed there was no signature on the lock. So I pulled the lock, and this is what I see on the inside:

Bob Roller · « **Reply #16 on:** October 29, 2021, 02:03:27 PM »

Harold Robbins,Ypsilanti,Michigan.He worked in a wheel chair and did well.
I met him in Friendship in 1964 and offered to share my display space for
his locks but he declined because he wasn't going to stay that long to make
it worthwhile.
Bob Roller

bluenoser · « **Reply #17 on:** October 29, 2021, 04:04:04 PM »

When comparing the BBL signature on the subject rifle to those on the known examples, one can see a significant difference. While the signatures on the known examples have a pronounced lean, the signature on the subject rifle is pretty much vertical. It is particularly noticeable in the B, h and l. Although Wm's signature might have become less refined in later years, I would not expect to see such a change in his writing style and am led to conclude it is likely a poorly executed forgery.
Having only had the privilege of handling one Buchele rifle, I am totally unqualified to comment further. My strongest memory of that rifle is how incredibly slender and dainty it felt.

alyce-james · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2021, 06:06:19 PM »

bluenoser. Sir, on the matter of signature. Firsthand experience, at (80) eighty years young, my signature has changed considerably over the years. I don't drink or have the shakes. On the subject rifle at hand. Very poor copy. Have a good day. AJ.

alyce-james · « **Reply #19 on:** October 29, 2021, 06:13:03 PM »

sespe. Sir, thanks for sharing pictures of the Buckele rifle. One of my favorite rifle makers. I think this thread is over. Y"all have a great. AJ.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2021, 04:58:54 PM »

I relayed a link to this discussion to the guy helping the widow sell her guns, he greatly appreciated all the input.

Thanks guys.

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 03, 2021, 02:12:30 AM »

Personally I don't know much about his guns. But I do know who bought out his estate. He used to be on here. He lives in Midland Michigan. If you want anymore info you can p.m. me.

News:

Author Topic: real or not (Read 3616 times)

sespe

sespe