I hate patent plugs, so I got yet another offshore screwdriver kit.

[rfd]

This one is an Investarms Gemmer-Hawken flinter in .50 bore, 32" bbl, 1:60 rifling for patched balls.  Before even starting the kit I sold off the lock and DST, replaced by L&R goodies - RPL05 lock and T5 DST.  I don't spend much time or effort in these guns, they is what they is and none have much to do with what they're s'posed to represent.  Not particularly interested in the minutiae of period/era correctness, so to each their own, you either like 'em or hate 'em or sometimes settle on that's all you can afford.  I do demand good functionality and acceptable off-hand accuracy.

Anyhoo, there was more to this kit than using a screwdriver since both the new lock and DST required inlet work, and the tooling included a Dremel, chisels, rasps, scrapers, abrasives, etc.  I also pulled the breech plug to clean it and bbl out of proofing residue, check and file the touch hole liner to set flush with the bore of the breech flue, and screw it all back together with Nikal anti-seize grease.  I built new ramrods, epoxy and pinning the brass ferrules, and ditched the cheesy supplied one, with one dedicated to a 6.5mm brush for cleaning out the breech flue. 

The stain was by LMF in walnut and nut brown, the finish Tru-Oil and MinWax.  After staining and before the clear coats I wicked in water thin CYA (Hot Stuff) into the entire lock and DST mortises, the wood surrounding the breech plug, and the bbl channel - this both seals and hardens the wood from you-know-what.  When it cures in a few days or so the hideous stock shine will get buffed out with 0000 wool and it'll get rubbed out to a sorta matte finish, as I prefer.  The steel furniture will be left as it, as will be the bbl, though I might vinegar it to kill off the shine - I'm not a fan of browning or bluing bbls.  That's about it, another one bites the dust.   

















Good lock time, 5 to 6 ounce fire trigger pull weight ...

[smylee grouch]

Did you take any pics of the breech plug when you had it out? What dia. hole did it have and how deep was it? Was there any cone to the face of the plugs hole?

[rfd]

The Gemmer patent breech plug is no different than a Lyman (Investarms) GPR patent breech plug.  Just before the touch hole, the face of the patent flue is concave ...



Lotta proof fouling in the plug and bbl, cleaned right up with good ol' Ballistol ...

[smylee grouch]

Thanks for that reply/report on your breech plug. I was curious what proofing residue there would be and the shape and configuration of the plug.

[Paul from KY]

What are the advantages of replacing the Investarms lock with a L&R lock?  Is a leaf mainspring better than the coil spring that Lyman, TC, and Investarms use?  I have a couple of TC "Hawken" flintlocks and have considered changing them out for L&R replacements.

[rfd]

What are the advantages of replacing the Investarms lock with a L&R lock?  Is a leaf mainspring better than the coil spring that Lyman, TC, and Investarms use?  I have a couple of TC "Hawken" flintlocks and have considered changing them out for L&R replacements.

The concept of "better" and "best" can be somewhat subjective, at the least.  For me, the quality, durability, adjustability, and performance of both the L&R RPL05 lock and the T5 DST is "better" than those stock Investarms components.  Are there issues or known problems with the Investarms lock and DST?  IMHO, no - both will work well, but IMHO not as well as those L&R components. 

Be advised that these L&R components are no where near "drop in".  A fair amount of wood will be required to hog out in order to get the lock to properly fit. 

Before ...


After ...



The T5 DST will require its butt end to get bobbed by about 3/4" and a 1/8" hole drilled into it for the hold-down wood screw.  Its front end will need to get a good 1/16" to 3/32" shelf cut/ground into it in order to allow the trigger guard to fit at least reasonably properly - I could have made that shelf deeper but felt it wasn't all that necessary, didn't want to perhaps weaken that part of the DST, and having the front end of the trigger guard be proud of the stock wood wasn't a deal breaker (for me).

DST comparisons ...

[hanshi]

A good rifle is a good rifle and a nice looking good rifle is even better.  A bench built replica of a surviving "Jo Jones" rifle in of no interest to me.  My one and only criterium is that it work for me!  Very nice work making it your custom rifle.

[bob in the woods]

Do you plan to file and polish up the lock and guard ? 

[rfd]

Do you plan to file and polish up the lock and guard ?

Absolutely ... not.   

The form is good enuf for me, the function is what matters most - as it probably would back in the day.

[bob in the woods]

I respect your opinion, but ...all my research indicates that " back in the day" , form actually mattered more than folks think.  Anyway, I just thought I'd ask.  Glad you're happy with your rife

[rfd]

I respect your opinion, but ...all my research indicates that " back in the day" , form actually mattered more than folks think.  Anyway, I just thought I'd ask.  Glad you're happy with your rife

Yes, "form" does matter in terms of ergonomics.  Polishing the furniture?  Nope.  Dittos for lock and bbl "finishing". 

"Happy" is a fickle word.  NOT happy with patent breech plugs, but I had fun making assembling a rifle for someone who does appreciate such.

[Ric Carter]

Patent breeches are devil's spawn.

[rfd]

Patent breeches are devil's spawn.

Spot on, I couldn't agree more. 

[Daryl]

Why, may I ask?

[rfd]

Why, may I ask?

Added fouling control for the breech's narrow flue.

[Panzerschwein]

Sadly, original Hawkens had patent breeches. I don’t like them either, yet they are technically period.

[Bob Roller]

I think the term "Patent breech" applies to flintlocks back in a time when everyone and their uncle was trying to patent one thing or another in flintlocks and it applies to chambered breech plugs.The bolster breech is another thing entirely and the only safe way to manage a heavy powder charge and heavy ball.The bolster breech made possible the great long range muzzle loaders we see now.It had to be made in such a way to prevent the nipple from blowing out and the Brits as usual came up with good ones because the pressures generated by100 grains of high quality black powder launching a 500+grain bullet is high.High enough to blow a drum out of a barrel and kill the person shooting next to you.The Hawken and oher similar guns using bolster breeches usually were not loaded with that much powder and even a 58 caliber round ball only weighs about 280 grains.The Hawken breech is adequate for sensible loads but it isnot as sophisticated as those of Rigby,Henry and Whitworth and others from the foggy isles.
Bob Roller

[smylee grouch]

I like patent breeches. I drill mine out some what and cone the front so powder flows into them better. You also have extra room for some 4f if you should dry ball and want to pop the ball out. I have shot 50-60 shots in a day at the range and never have a fouling problem with the tight combos and good lube.

[rfd]

You can like a patent breech plug, or just put up with it, or hate it.  I'm in the latter camp.  This "invention" was s'posed to make for better ignition, but simply does not.  It's only sole advantage may be the ability to work in 15 or 20 grains of powder to blast out a dry ball.  Other than that, every time a patched ball is seated, crud goes into the flue and in short order a flinter begins yielding pan flashes.  This is the patent breech's way of saying "Clean me!".  To do so will require something to get into the flue and best I've found is a brush & patch, wet at first, followed by as many dry as required to make the flue, well, dry.  What a PITA.  Patent breech plugs suck.

Years ago I commissioned Tom Watson to build a me a .54 "Hawken" flinter with a hooked classic flat face breech plug, and barrel wedges.  Arrived in-the-white, I did the finish work.  The best of all worlds for ease of fouling control and cleaning.  That was one gun I shudda never let go, my bad.
   

[smylee grouch]

I guess I don't have crud going into the anti chamber when I have powder in front of it. I sure must be lucky when I can get 50-60 shots off with out fouling problems. 

[rfd]

A .50 bore rifle with a patent breech will have a flue that will hold 15-20 grains of black, then whatever is left over from the load you've chosen for a patched ball, which means a total of 50 to 70 grains of 3F for me.  I use Swiss powder exclusively and get pretty clean burns.  I can get a dozen or lots more shots off without fouling control, but like with BPCR guns, shot-to-shot fouling control yields best accuracy for me.  Hence my need to sweep out the flue as well as the bore.     

[rfd]

Maybe I should ring up Tom and see about getting another sorta-Hawken style flinter with flat breach plug, like the first one he built for me ... 

[Daryl]

A .50 bore rifle with a patent breech will have a flue that will hold 15-20 grains of black, then whatever is left over from the load you've chosen for a patched ball, which means a total of 50 to 70 grains of 3F for me.  I use Swiss powder exclusively and get pretty clean burns.  I can get a dozen or lots more shots off without fouling control, but like with BPCR guns, shot-to-shot fouling control yields best accuracy for me.  Hence my need to sweep out the flue as well as the bore.   

Well, you must be doing something I am not.  It matters not if I take 10 shots, 50 shots or 100shots in a day's trail walk, No wiping is necessary at any time and ZERO mis or hangfires.
That is with a bolster/patent breech.  I've never heard such silliness before, pushing crud into the "flue" was it?

[Panzerschwein]

I don’t really have ignition issues with them either, just hate cleaning them.

[rfd]

A .50 bore rifle with a patent breech will have a flue that will hold 15-20 grains of black, then whatever is left over from the load you've chosen for a patched ball, which means a total of 50 to 70 grains of 3F for me.  I use Swiss powder exclusively and get pretty clean burns.  I can get a dozen or lots more shots off without fouling control, but like with BPCR guns, shot-to-shot fouling control yields best accuracy for me.  Hence my need to sweep out the flue as well as the bore.   

Well, you must be doing something I am not.  It matters not if I take 10 shots, 50 shots or 100shots in a day's trail walk, No wiping is necessary at any time and ZERO mis or hangfires.
That is with a bolster/patent breech.  I've never heard such silliness before, pushing crud into the "flue" was it?

Well, you must be doing something I am not.  And I guess this is the first time you've heard about the fact of pushing crud into the flue - learning new stuff is part of life.