Author Topic: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger  (Read 1974 times)

Offline Dutch Blacky

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Some days ago i purchased an antique  powder horn (pocket horn; only 4.3 inches high without charger) with a rare charger variation. This form of a  flat horn seems to be typical for european powder horns, but mine  has an unusual type of charger:  A patent top is combined with a detachable charger. (4 times adjustable  75 to 90 grains)

In „The Powder Flask Book“ of Riling there are shown  some examples of metal powder flasks (Nr. 1377, 1393, 1403, 1407 and 1410) with this  type of charger. According to Riling they have been made by a number of makers in France but also by Dixon (1403) and Hawskley (1407) in England.
Flat horns combined with a patent top and detachable charger are shown as  nr. 1173 and 1181 in „The Powder Flask Book“.

My horn comes from a german collection in the Rhine-Mosel area near the french border.  It probably was made around 1840 – 1860. The maker ist unknown.

Does anybody have more informations about this type of horn?







































Offline Robby

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2021, 08:03:09 PM »
I have no idea Dutch, but that is one very cool powder mechanism Mounted on it!!!! Thanks for showing it.
Robby
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Offline acorn20

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2021, 08:24:23 AM »
That charger head certainly is unique.  What's the base material?  Wood, horn, leather???  I don't think I've ever seen the base attached to the horn in that manner.
Dan Akers

Offline Dutch Blacky

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2021, 10:45:37 AM »
The base material is wood covered with leather.

The charger is rare but not uniqúe. Riling is describing the combination of a patent top with a detached charger in the chapter "Charging Variations. "Flask Figures  1377, 1393, 1403, 1407 and 1410 show various forms of the patent top with detached chargers made by a number of makers. Figures  1377, 1393, and 1410 are of french manufacture; 1403 is of Dixon make; and 1407 is a product of Hawsley."

This observation indicates, that these patent tops with detached charger have been industrially made; this part may have been bought and used by flask and horn makers.
We should consider: In Europe, it has long been the case that the individual components were manufactured by specialized craftsmen and later by subcontractors. This is comparable to the use of purchased locks in the construction of american longrifles














« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 12:54:08 AM by Dutch Blacky »

Offline Feltwad

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2021, 12:10:12 AM »
You will find that the UK flask maker  Dixon & Sons made flasks with the same tops but with copper body.
Feltwad

« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 12:14:13 AM by Feltwad »

Offline Dutch Blacky

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2021, 01:04:17 AM »
Thank you Feltwad.

What' s about horns with patent top and detachable charger?  Are makers in the US  known who made such horns and used this type of top?
Or is this type of horn typical or limited to makers in Europe?

Offline Feltwad

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2021, 10:38:17 PM »
Thank you Feltwad.

What' s about horns with patent top and detachable charger?  Are makers in the US  known who made such horns and used this type of top?
Or is this type of horn typical or limited to makers in Europe?

Cannot say if any  horns with patent top were made in the States .Has I live in the UK  and a collector flask are part of my  collections  of which most are of English and continental makers
Feltwad
 

Offline Dutch Blacky

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2022, 02:59:33 PM »
Maybe you guys can help me?

I was lucky and could buy a flask with a very unusual charger.




The person, who sold this flask called the charging system "SYSTÈME de MIRE"

In "The Powder Flask Book" of Ray Riling this system ist described on Pages 136/137 as a patented  powder and shot charging system by Theobald Hick and George W. Weatherwax of St. Josephs in the county of Berrien, Michigan








Does somebody have more informations about this system?


« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 03:06:35 PM by Dutch Blacky »

Offline OLUT

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2022, 11:35:24 PM »
Maybe this will help ..... here's the text that goes with your illustration of the HICK patent spout. Their proprietary claims are listed at the bottom of this Letters Patent. I've also included the 1875 US Patent filing fees. Despite the increased popularity of cartridges by 1875, these guys thought they saw enough market potential at that late date to pay the patent fees and then make a profit from this  muzzleloading flask patent. ( I do have several muzzleloaders from the 1870-1880 period in my collection, so there was still a bit of a niche market for them).


Offline Dutch Blacky

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Re: European flat powderhorn, rare patent top with detachable charger
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2022, 04:17:22 AM »
Thank you, OLUT

This is really very interesting and helpful.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 05:15:36 AM by Dutch Blacky »