Author Topic: Neatsfoot oil  (Read 27455 times)

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9828
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Neatsfoot oil
« on: September 29, 2009, 05:29:53 PM »
I have a small supply of Sperm whale oil and I picked up 3 quarts+ of pure Neatsfoot at a yard sale this summer.
A friend had told me that he had been having trouble with the Sperm Whale oil, it all came for the same source.
I was shooting my 54 pistol yesterday and it was loading hard as heck, no wiping just blowing between shots. I had thrown some SWO in with some NFO patches to get the numbers to the point I could shoot enough to get the sights well set. Shooting the SWO first the pistol loaded pretty hard all the way down. I got down the NFO in about 12 shots and it was night and day. So now I wonder if its real SWO or is it fake/mixed with something else.
Anyway its pretty well retired from patch lube duty.
The Neatfoot is completely transparent and I also wonder about it as most I have had in the past has some color to it. But it sure loads slick. 

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Daryl

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2009, 05:39:38 PM »
Taylor and I were out doing some shotoing Sunday- him with his .60 Jaeger and me with the .32 Tenn. rifle.  Taylor used the mink oil from Track and remarked repeatedly, how nicley it loaded, shot after shot. Of course, he did no wiping.

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9828
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2009, 05:52:14 PM »
Taylor and I were out doing some shotoing Sunday- him with his .60 Jaeger and me with the .32 Tenn. rifle.  Taylor used the mink oil from Track and remarked repeatedly, how nicley it loaded, shot after shot. Of course, he did no wiping.

The funny part is that the hard loading did not appear to be related to fouling it was like the Sperm Whale oil was not really lubricating as it should. The first round with the Neatsfoot just slid down easy so it was not that the previous lube was making hard fouling. The difference was really striking.
????
I, Daniel the younger and the local mail carrier, who stopped when he saw me shoot, shot 23 rounds with 3 different powder charges with no fouling problems. FFF Swiss. Finally ran out of powder in the little "day horn" I had brought out. Last shot was about 15 grains as a result but this would have put the hurt on someone at 25 yards.  Maybe not fatal, but Andrew Jackson carried a ball in his chest from a duel, probably from a similar powder charge.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12594
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2009, 08:40:54 PM »
I have to tell you, the bore on my Jaeger is not as good as it was when it was new.  I used to clean it with very hot water, and I think I've flash rusted it too many times.  The patches come out clean white but the bore isn't as smooth as it was when Don sent it to me.
Anyway, I started my shooting with .023" denim and Lube 103, using 120 grains of FFg Goex powder to sight in for hunting moose and elk.  I was having mediocre accuracy, and we found that my patches were occasionally getting burnt spots.  Loading was ok but not great.

Daryl gave me some .030" denim patches which had been soaked with one of his concoctions that smelled like Pine Sol.  I rubbed some Mink Oil into those patches, and loaded those .590 pure lead balls much much easier.  Accuracy improved, and no more burnt patches.

After the range session, I joined the fellows on our trail walk, and shot another fifty rounds or so.  I did miss a couple of targets, but hit most of them, and made some great shots too, out to 109 yards.

I have not tried straight pure Neatsfoot Oil yet, but expect it to perform as well as Dan indicates.  The Mint Oil is sure nice.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

jamesthomas

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2009, 02:41:42 AM »
 I wish i could shoot like that with my mink oil.I can only get off 3 shots before i have to wipe the bore. This is with 70 grns of 3fff swiss in .50 cal. I've try spit, hog fat, no luck 3 shots have to clean.Bummer!

roundball

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2009, 03:04:15 AM »
I suspect you'll think you've died and gone to heaven if you try Hoppes No9 PLUS (BP solvent & patch lube)...leave the cleaning patches in the car and just shoot 'til you're tired of shooting...outstanding stuff

jamesthomas

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2009, 03:13:04 AM »
 I reckon i'll have to get some online then, can't find any down in atl. ga. let ya'll know what happens.

roundball

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2009, 03:37:46 AM »
I reckon i'll have to get some online then, can't find any down in atl. ga. let ya'll know what happens.
PM sent
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 03:38:36 AM by roundball »

Harnic

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2009, 05:04:21 AM »
  The Mint Oil is sure nice.

I bet it smells good too Taylor!  ;)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 05:04:41 AM by Harnic »

Offline Chuck Burrows

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1218
    • Wild Rose Trading Company
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 08:40:05 AM »
FYI - since the 1930's most Pure Neatsfoot Oil is usually processed from Hog Lard and not from the legs and feet of cattle as once done. Neatsfoot Compound is Pure NFO with added mineral oil and/or reprocessed motor oil - no good stuff. This info is per the manufacturers of Neats Foot Oil .....
My favorite patch lube is bear oil, but when I can't get it plain ole cheap lard works dandy - been using it now for over 45 years
as always others mileage WILL vary..........
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

William Worth

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 03:35:23 PM »
I've been having very good results with my latest homebrew concoction of; tall oil, isopropyl alcohol, potassium hydroxide solution, pine oil, eye of newt, bark of dog......I'm still tinkering with the component ratios. :P

After firing a shot or two of a grease type hunting lube, I can go back to my homebrew for easy, no wipe loading, easy cleanup and consistent accuracy.


Daryl

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 04:17:59 PM »
James - i suggest you check out the thread on muzzleshortening and crowning. The crowning part if the important one.  If or once your crown passes muster, try some heavier, ie: thicker patches.  Having to wipe at all during a day's shooting is a sign of too-thin patches, which aren't cleaning when you load and thus, they allow fouling to build up.  With a well fitted combination, there is no buildup and loading is easy all day.

Offline TPH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 923
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2009, 04:21:19 PM »
Dan, I'm curious, where did you get Sperm Whale Oil? I thought that it was no longer available. It was supposed to have been outlawed back in the late '60s or early '70s. I do know that Dixie Gun Works was selling it in their catalog through the 1960s but Turner Kirkland sold the last of what he had in the early '70s and no more was available after that, at least none that I have see. Is the real stuff available again?

Chuck, thanks for the information on "real" neatsfoot oil, sorry to hear it, I use it regularly and recommend it to others on my products. Do you still use neatsfoot oil or have you switched to something else?

Sorry to wander off topic....
T.P. Hern

William Worth

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2009, 04:37:40 PM »
There was a leather treating product named "Biwell" that I was told was pulled from the market due to whale product content, don't know if this is true or not.  I see limited amounts still available.  Content information can be hard to come by.

I wonder about using Sno-Seal for patch lube?  I have numerous cans of the stuff, the older ones had silicone, which for some reason has fallen out of favor.  I've known some fine products that contained silicone. ;D  Now, there are many things that loudly proclaim "NO SILICONE".  Seems the silicone was replaced with teflon.

X-C Ski waxes are generally paraffin or beeswax with varying amounts of a softner added, might have to get into that line of experimentation as well.  Of course, X-C ski wax is meant to make a surface a controlled degree of sticky.  Don't want no "klister" down the bore. :-\

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9828
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2009, 05:33:29 PM »
FYI - since the 1930's most Pure Neatsfoot Oil is usually processed from Hog Lard and not from the legs and feet of cattle as once done. Neatsfoot Compound is Pure NFO with added mineral oil and/or reprocessed motor oil - no good stuff. This info is per the manufacturers of Neats Foot Oil .....
My favorite patch lube is bear oil, but when I can't get it plain ole cheap lard works dandy - been using it now for over 45 years
as always others mileage WILL vary..........

I suspect that back in the day that a lot of hog lard was used, lard oil, deer tallow, coon grease. I should be hunting bear right now I would really like some bear oil. But other things get in the way too like getting firewood. We just had a serious cold snap and it could have put some of them to sleep??

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9828
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2009, 05:41:32 PM »
Dan, I'm curious, where did you get Sperm Whale Oil? I thought that it was no longer available. It was supposed to have been outlawed back in the late '60s or early '70s. I do know that Dixie Gun Works was selling it in their catalog through the 1960s but Turner Kirkland sold the last of what he had in the early '70s and no more was available after that, at least none that I have see. Is the real stuff available again?

Chuck, thanks for the information on "real" neatsfoot oil, sorry to hear it, I use it regularly and recommend it to others on my products. Do you still use neatsfoot oil or have you switched to something else?

Sorry to wander off topic....

I am told that this came from a drum someone had pilfered from the Singer Sewing Machine company. At least thats what the drum had on it. A friend I got some from saw the drum. What the quality is, if it were adulterated, etc I could not say. A trace back shows that what I got from another friend via Colorado, came from the same container.
I have used Neatsfoot oil a lot over the years and really have never had a reason to cuss it. But you gotta beware since its often adulterated with petroleum. Read the label with care.
I was really astounded at the results with the pistol.

The "transparent" Neatsfoot oil I have is actually a pale yellow when poured into a glass jar. But looks colorless when poured from the container onto patches.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9828
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2009, 05:50:19 PM »
I wish i could shoot like that with my mink oil.I can only get off 3 shots before i have to wipe the bore. This is with 70 grns of 3fff swiss in .50 cal. I've try spit, hog fat, no luck 3 shots have to clean.Bummer!
There are many factors. If the barrel is rough internally it will foul much much more. A friend relates to me the people who shoot the perchlorate powders extensively then try to got back to black have this problem.
I shoot 75 gr a Swiss FFF in a 50 with no fouling problems.
If it will not shoot pretty clean with spit then there is a problem. Spit patch should shoot a pretty long string with out wiping.
If you can see signicant fouling at the muzzle try dropping the charge 5 grains and see what happens. If you cannot see fouling at the muzzle there is something down the bore causing problems. Rough bore, some pitting etc.
Anything that roughs up the bore either from use or from how it made can REALLY increase fouling problems.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9828
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2009, 06:15:18 PM »
The only information I can get concerning  Hoppes BP solvent ( Elite Black Powder Solvent, nothing for #9 plus) is that its diethylene glycol monobutyl ether <15% and the rest apparently tap water. This from Hoppe's MSDS site.
The chemical is a solvent and is used in Windex (Wikipedia). So you can likely make your own from a bottle of Windex

"The main use of 2-butoxyethanol is as a solvent in paints and surface coatings, followed by cleaning products and inks. It provides cleaning power and the characteristic odor of Windex and other glass cleaners. Other products which contain 2-butoxyethanol include acrylic resin formulations, asphalt release agents, firefighting foam, leather protectors, oil spill dispersants, bowling pin and lane degreaser, and photographic strip solutions. 2-Butoxyethanol is a primary ingredient of various whiteboard cleaners, liquid soaps, cosmetics, dry cleaning solutions, lacquers, varnishes, herbicides, and latex paints. It also seems to be excellent at killing most insects and arachnids.

It is the main ingredient of many home, commercial, and industrial cleaning solutions; such as Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner which has been used to clean up oil spills. The primary manufacturers are Eastman Chemical, Dow Chemical and Equistar in the United States."

http://www.dow.com/productsafety/finder/egbe.htm#uses
See product uses.

I have been using widow cleaner and water for years 20 or more, as a BP solvent.
Trust me folks its a lot cheaper to buy it as Windex and then cut with 1-2 parts tap water in a gallon milk jug than to buy a bottle of Hoppe's.
I love the things one finds in an MSDS.
I gotta flood coolant system to cobble together and a couple of barrels to order so I better quit.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5316
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2009, 10:56:49 PM »
I use Hoppes #9 bp and have a gallon of it at present.  It is about the viscosity of motor oil and the color of, I guess, caramel.  Mine is, I believe, may be older than what you can go to the gun shop and buy off the shelf.  I had a pint of it (use up now) that I bought off the shelf.  Basically it was no different from what I have now.  Has the formula been changed at any point?  It is great stuff and allows me to shoot all day without swabbing the bore.  When I clean afterward it is no more difficult than firing half a dozen shots with spit patch.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Joe Stein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2009, 11:23:47 PM »
The only information I can get concerning  Hoppes BP solvent ( Elite Black Powder Solvent, nothing for #9 plus) is that its diethylene glycol monobutyl ether <15% and the rest apparently tap water. This from Hoppe's MSDS site.
The chemical is a solvent and is used in Windex (Wikipedia). So you can likely make your own from a bottle of Windex

"The main use of 2-butoxyethanol is as a solvent in paints and surface coatings, followed by cleaning products and inks. It provides cleaning power and the characteristic odor of Windex and other glass cleaners. Other products which contain 2-butoxyethanol include acrylic resin formulations, asphalt release agents, firefighting foam, leather protectors, oil spill dispersants, bowling pin and lane degreaser, and photographic strip solutions. 2-Butoxyethanol is a primary ingredient of various whiteboard cleaners, liquid soaps, cosmetics, dry cleaning solutions, lacquers, varnishes, herbicides, and latex paints. It also seems to be excellent at killing most insects and arachnids.

It is the main ingredient of many home, commercial, and industrial cleaning solutions; such as Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner which has been used to clean up oil spills. The primary manufacturers are Eastman Chemical, Dow Chemical and Equistar in the United States."

http://www.dow.com/productsafety/finder/egbe.htm#uses
See product uses.

I have been using widow cleaner and water for years 20 or more, as a BP solvent.
Trust me folks its a lot cheaper to buy it as Windex and then cut with 1-2 parts tap water in a gallon milk jug than to buy a bottle of Hoppe's.
I love the things one finds in an MSDS.
I gotta flood coolant system to cobble together and a couple of barrels to order so I better quit.
Dan

Here is a link to the MSDS for Hoppe's No. 9 Plus:
 http://www2.hazard.com/msds/f2/bhq/bhqtv.html
It doesn't tell you much, has a "secret ingredient" listed at <15%, water at 70-75%, kerosene <5%, etc.
Here is a link to search the MSDS Database:
http://www.msdssearch.com/DBLinksN.htm

-Joe

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9828
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2009, 11:42:56 PM »
OK.
My mistake. Silly me I thought #9 Plus would be made by Hoppe's.
Hoppe's No. 9 Plus is not made by Hoppe's or so the MSDS I found shows, its by Michaels of Oregon.
www.navalcompany.com/msdsblackpowder.pdf


The other stuff I found is by Hoppe's which is now Bushnell Outdoor products.
http://www.hoppes.com/au_msds.html
They have no MSDS for 9 Plus I can find though they show it on the wed site. I guess they leave the MSDS to the maker?
Anyway
The "Plus" is 75%+- water, <15% petroleum distillate (trade secret), <5% ethyl alcohol, Kerosene and <5% trade secret.

Looks like joe posted ahead of me but here it is anyway.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

William Worth

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2009, 03:25:27 AM »
I'll betcha the "trade secret" is a detergent to emulsify the rest of it.

jamesthomas

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2009, 06:13:33 AM »
 Depharris- my rifle is a green mt. .50 cal. straight barrel. 33in. When i clean it it feels as though i have a ring of crude about 6 to 8 inches from the breach.I can get the 4th shoot down about half way then it's very hard the rest of the way.I've had this barrel 3 years now, i clean it very good after each range session.Use bore butter as preservative.I also check for rust about every 4 to6 weeks -no problems.I use a .15 pillow ticking patch with a .495 rd.I'm sorry if i've hijacked this thread.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 06:17:09 AM by james e »

Offline Herb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1709
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2009, 06:38:58 AM »
James E, your problem is the Swiss powder.  I had the same problem with a .58 flintlock I built, using 120 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 and Swiss 2 powder.  Hard fouling after the first shot, one or two more and I could not get a ball down on the powder.  The bore fouled the first 6 or 8 inches at the breech.  I bet you would not have that problem if you used Goex powder.  Otherwise you will have to wipe (clean) the bore after every shot.
Herb

jamesthomas

  • Guest
Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2009, 06:45:56 AM »
 And there i bought the the swiss cause it was suppose to burn cleaner!