Author Topic: Neatsfoot oil  (Read 27522 times)

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2009, 07:07:54 AM »
Depharris- my rifle is a green mt. .50 cal. straight barrel. 33in. When i clean it it feels as though i have a ring of crude about 6 to 8 inches from the breach.I can get the 4th shoot down about half way then it's very hard the rest of the way.I've had this barrel 3 years now, i clean it very good after each range session.Use bore butter as preservative.I also check for rust about every 4 to6 weeks -no problems.I use a .15 pillow ticking patch with a .495 rd.I'm sorry if i've hijacked this thread.

First I would stop using bore butter as a protectant. Most modern gun oils or even WD-40 will actually pull stuff from the bore after use. But the gun should be stored muzzle down for the first few hours after being oiled.
You may have some build up of this stuff in the bore if you ever used it as patch lube.
Try a tight oiled patch in a clean bore and see if you can feel anything like tight or rough spots.
If it checks out pretty smooth with the tight patch then go the last paragraph of this post.


 GMs are pretty darned nice barrels so its unlikely its a manufacturing defect (but?). If you feel something then run a loose patch wet with Hoppes #9  Butch's Bore Shine or other non-ammonia modern powder solvent down and let is set 10-15 minutes breech end up then brush it with a copper bore brush then follow with a couple of solvent soaked patches then dry and check to see if the bore is uniform.

Note: Sweets 16, Barnes and some others are strong ammonia to remove copper fouling. This CANNOT be allowed to remain in the bore and will not really help your problem anyway.
If the Hoppe's or what ever does not change anything try some spray carburetor cleaner. Brush and then dry the bore and try the oiled patch again.
If this does not seem to help try a tight patch with JB Bore Cleaning Compound about 5-10 strokes to the patch. This will produce a lot of black stuff on the patches most of which is just iron oxide but it will also remove anything else. It is a mild abrasive and will not harm the bore. It will work better than steel wool etc for cleaning.
If the bore seems OK with the oiled patch decrease the powder charge 5-10 grains and see if it helps.
I shoot 75 grains fff Swiss in 2 different 50s with no problem. One is a 42" GM.

Its hard to diagnose at a distance.

Swiss WILL cause very hard fouling in SOME guns. But a drop in charge of 5-10 grains will result in a VERY CLEAN burn. With 90 grains of FFF Swiss my 38" long  54 shows virtually no fouling at the muzzle and a 32" 58 fouled horribly with 110 but was perfectly clean with 90. The 67 caliber with a 30" barrel shoots 140-160 perfectly clean at the muzzle and loads easily for any number of shots. They will eventually get a little "gummy" toward the breech where Goex makes a ring in the 54 and fouls the 67 horribly. I can shoot 65-70 grains FFF in my sons 45. A pretty heavy charge weight for a 45 and it shoots clean. The 58 I tested is horrid at 110 FF or FFF, lower ball weight to powder ratio than the 45 so??? Swiss is a hot powder and if the charge burn temp exceeds a given amount the fouling changes in character. The answer is to reduce the charge. About 100 grains is max in 54-58 calibers it seems. Since my 54 makes almost 1900 with 90 FFF I can't see using anymore.

Dan

He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Daryl

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2009, 03:58:53 PM »
1,900fps with a .54 with 90gr. FFF Swiss is incredible speed. My bro's .50 40" Virginia gets only 1,400fps with 80gr. 2F GOEX.   

jamesthomas

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2009, 04:56:29 PM »
 Thanks Dpharris i would go down on the charge but i'm conerned about loss of mv, anyone done any chronographing of say 60, 70, 80 grn. of swiss?

Offline hanshi

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2009, 06:58:13 PM »
With a .54 ball I really don't think you need that kind of velocity.  With a .45 it is okay but that's a much smaller ball. 
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2009, 07:01:42 PM »
OK.
My mistake. Silly me I thought #9 Plus would be made by Hoppe's.
Hoppe's No. 9 Plus is not made by Hoppe's or so the MSDS I found shows, its by Michaels of Oregon.
www.navalcompany.com/msdsblackpowder.pdf


The other stuff I found is by Hoppe's which is now Bushnell Outdoor products.
http://www.hoppes.com/au_msds.html
They have no MSDS for 9 Plus I can find though they show it on the wed site. I guess they leave the MSDS to the maker?
Anyway
The "Plus" is 75%+- water, <15% petroleum distillate (trade secret), <5% ethyl alcohol, Kerosene and <5% trade secret.

Looks like joe posted ahead of me but here it is anyway.
Dan

Interesting information.  I do know it "settles" after a spell and you do need to shake it prior to use.  Kinda like you have to do with paint.  "Cept it makes better patch lube than paint.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Herb

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2009, 07:44:27 AM »
james E- yes, I do.  With a 32" caplock J.H. Johnston rifle I built (in The Longrifles of Western Pennsylvania, p. 78), .490 balls, 4 shots each (mean velocity/spread):  50 grains each of Goex 2F, 1373/67 fps; Swiss 2F, 1489/29;  Swiss 3F, 1666/124 and 1688/61; and Triple 7 2F, 1529/39.

90 grains each of Goex 2F (5 shots), 1842/92; Swiss 2F, 1982/64 and 1987/25; Pyrodex RS, 1892/66; Triple 7 2F, 2021/44 and 2002/43.

With a .50 flintlock Jacob Wigle (Westmoreland Co., PA) 38" I built:  All 50 grain charges, 5 shots: Goex 3F, 1524/16 and 1492/63; Goex 2F, 1417/87; Swiss 2F, 1523/9;  Swiss 3F, 1618/12 and 1623/21.

80 grain charges, 5 or 6 shots:  Goex 2F, 1742/25 and 1714/50;  Goex 3F, 1840/29;   Swiss 2F, 1857/39;  Swiss 3F, 2030/ 36, one month later with different lube, 1985/28, both 1" groups;  And 80 grains of Triple 7 2F (flintlock, remember), 1881/138; Triple 7 3F and added overpowder wad, 1921/76 (1" group); and 8 shots, 1962/80, also a 1 " group at 50 yards.

Joel Ferree 38" caplock I built; 80 grains each, 5, 6 or 7 shot groups: Goex 2F, 1792/53 and 1763/33; Goex 3F, 1936/24; Swiss 2F, 1938/34; and 1922/25; Swiss 3F, 2072/35; and Triple 7 2F, 2041/44.

If you graph  powder charges and velocities for a rifle and the different powders, you can interpolate for velocities at other charges.











« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 06:52:43 AM by Herb »
Herb

jamesthomas

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2009, 09:08:01 PM »
  That's some great information Herb!Thanks much!  i've been thinking about using 2f Swiss i have about 5lbs of it.I was told that my problems at the range may be because since the 3f burns faster it's leaving the ring,[short powder column] concentrating the fouling in a short area. And if i switched to 2f the powder column would be longer and since 2f burns a little slower the fowling would be distributed along more of the barrel,there by making it easier to load without wiping as often.I would like to get at least 10 shots off without wiping.Also around 1800fps is what i would like be at, so i'll switch to 80 grns of 2f and see how it works.Ya'll are some great folks.

roundball

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2009, 09:59:50 PM »
IMO, Goex is an outstanding powder and considering all aspects of a black powder, it is the best price performer on the market.

All I've used years now is Goex with Natural Lube 1000 & Hoppes PLUS BP lubes, clean with hot soapy water & hot water rinse...T/C, GM, and Rice barrels...and I just never have any problems...wouldn't start switching around to some other powder or lubes if somebody gave them to me.
 ;D
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 05:32:31 AM by roundball »

Offline Herb

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2009, 05:21:09 AM »
Thanks, James E.  I graphed this data and about 75 grains should give you 1800 fps.  Let us know your results. I doubt the 2F will be any better.
Herb

Daryl

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2009, 06:04:48 PM »
To address James' problems, problems which plague many shooters - - - -

All through our years of shooting from the early days of 1970's till now, Taylor and I have both found 2f GOEX to burn cleaner than 3F - even though we use combinations that never require wiping, we 'felt' the 2F was actually cleaner burning.  We felt this was due to the lower pressures being generated for a given velocity - probably a good suposition.  This 'finding' of ours is polar opposite to everything I've read, but I've also read that patches are anti-gasgets that don't seal anything and that wads are necessary to create a seal, they increase velocity, etc, etc, - makes me want to vomit!

I've also read the small calibres foul more than larger ones, yet with up to 40gr. 3F in my new .32(accuracy load so far is 35gr.3F GOEX), there are no fouling problems using mink oil (or spit or WWfluid + soap) for lube - the 50th shot loading as easily as the first. Mink oil patches were saturated - it's greasy when loading is the only drawback.  I've used patches that were lubed 8 or more years ago, in the 14 bore rifle with full power hunting loads of 165gr. 2f, without any fouling problems - so neetsfoot oil works too.

This is the same with all my rifles so, the question is,
Why are some guys having fouling problems?  Now, guys who refuse to use thicker patches or larger balls because the want to load with two fingers as they envision our forefathers did, or who refuse to smooth and radius their crowns to allow easy loading of tighter combinations must want to have to wipe every shot or every couple or so shots. This is not directed at them - do as you wish, but don't complain about fouling.  If you want to wipe often, do so by all means.  Loads that foul will be more accurate if wiped between shots. The bore must be kept in a consistant condition.   My .58's and 14 bore proved to me the very best accuracy was obtained if the bore wasn't wiped between shots.  My .45 cal Sharps also proved that.  Loads that do not build fouling, shot to shot, shoot accurately, shot after shot.  I know BR shotoers wipe between shots - they also use larger than bore sized balls and teflon patches, which don't clean or soften the fouling - they have to wipe between shots just to load the rifle for the next shot.

This is directed at those who want to load and shoot thier 'hunting type' rifles all day long, using balls .005' to .010' under bore size and get the best accuracy their rifle will produce - without having to wipe the bore while shooting, the fouling never building up inside the bore.

Problems causing fouling (aside from rough, pitted bore bores):

1/. crown too sharp or with sharp edges/corners that cut the patch upon loading =  fouling buildup - emery under thumb to smooth and polish the crown=easy loading & no fouling buildup
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2/. rifling with flashing on edges or very sharp edges that cuts the patch= fouling buildup - steel wool on jag to polish the rifling or "Flitz" on tight cloth patch for polishing=easy loading & no fouling buildup
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3/. too thin a patch or too small a ball which results in blown or burnt patches=fouling buildup - try thicker patches or larger balls until recovered patches are in re-usable condition with application of more lube=easy loading & no fouling buildup
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4/. insufficient lube=fouling buildup - use more lube, saturate the patches, merely wiped on isn't good enough=no fouling buildup& easy loading
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5/. improper lube for softening BP fouling=fouling buildup - spit, most water based solutions inc. Hoppe's #9 Plus, most lubes work if enough lube is used = no fouing buildup & easy loading. Licking the patch is not a spit lube. Saturate the patch. Same with any other lube solutions - saturate the patch. When seated flush with the muzzle, there should be a ring of lube around the patched ball on the top of the muzzle's crown if using any of the greases and should splash, when one whack of the starter seats the ball flush with the crown when using water based lubes. If you don't use a starter, it is difficult to load without choking down on the rod to within an inch of the ball and pressing down almost to breaking the stock just to get the ball started. Some guys can do it, some can't. It's easier to use a short starter with a descent knob on it - it isn't a hammer - the shaft is gripped in the palm and the 'stroke' is straight down onto the ball and patch sitting on the muzzle. One whack is all it takes and it does not deform the ball if the crown is radiused smoothly. The patch and ball is swaged into the bore fore a perfect, fit. When pushed down to the powder, all the fouling from the previous shot is softened and pushed down on top of the powder.  This 'old' fouling insulates the patch from the powder (I assume) to some extent.  the result is one only wipes if one wants to, as Dan does, every 20 or so shots. Some guys, like us, shoot an entire day, whether it's 50 shots or 100 shots and only wipe the bore when we clean the rifles - after all the shooting's over.

Suggestions -  use 10 to 12 oz. denim or similar thickness ticking or linen for patches for .005" and .010" undersized balls. Some guys get by with .015" on .005"-under balls, while I get best resutls with .020" to .030"- caliper measure.
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Leatherbelly

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2009, 06:37:14 PM »
 Geez Daryls,
   How long have we been preaching this to the choir? I don't think the choir is listening. If you want to use light patch,no crown,two finger loading( like Hollywood),with a lightly lubed patch,you WILL get excessive fowling!
  As to Herb's loads,WOW!! I"d be more than happy with 1700 to 1800 fps in any fifty. 1600 for me would be just fine.

Daryl

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2009, 07:54:23 PM »
Herb's loads"80 grain charges, 5 or 6 shots:  Goex 2F, 1742/25 and 1714/50;  Goex 3F, 1840/29;   Swiss 2F, 1857/39;  Swiss 3F, 2030/ 36, one month later with different lube, 1985/28, both 1" groups;  And 80 grains of Triple 7 2F (flintlock, remember), 1881/138; Triple 7 3F and added overpowder wad, 1921/76 (1" group); and 8 shots, 1962/80, also a 1 " group at 50 yards.

Perhaps Taylor's Virginia was giving substandard speeds or the chrony was in error?  80gr. 2F GOEX only gave in the 1,408fps range and the ball drop and sight correction required for 100 yard shooting reflected a very low velocity.  At 1,800fps, a  50 yard zero should put the ball only about 1 3/8" low at 100yards rather than the 5" this rifle and charge gives now.

jamesthomas

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2009, 10:06:13 PM »
 This choir member has listened, the only thing i have not done is to polish the crown. My patches are not cut by the crown so i did'nt think i would need to do this.The patch and ball combo i use .15 patch .495 ball takes a whack with the short starter, can't get it to start with a .18 patch. So i might polish  the crown and be able to start a .18 patch which would fill the groves better there by cleaning the fouling better as i load the next shot.Perhaps the .15 patch is not filling the groves enough to clean the fouling good enough to pemit more than 3 shots. Btw i'll stop using bore butter as a protectant,only used it a few times as patch lube[was'nt accurate enough for me] mink oil much better.I have used a.18 patch w'.490 rd ball. Liked the other combo better.My patches leave a little ring of lube around the muzzle so i think i have got enough lube on it. Read this forum like crazy before and after receiving my flinter, excellent advise for everybody who has just started with muzzleloaders[Real ones that is].

Daryl

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2009, 04:07:36 AM »
Good show, James. Your fouling buildup promted my post.
A .015" patch plus the ball size measures out to .525".  If your bore is .500" and the rifling is square bottomed at .012" which is normal, the groove diameter is .500" + .012" + .012" = .524".  The .015" patch 'sounds' as if it is filing, BUT, due to stretch of the cloth, it really isn't filling. What I look for, is at least .005" compression per side.  This is the sme as calling the groove diameter .500" + .017" + .017" = .534". That is the measurement your patch and ball should make when added together. That would mean another .005" per side for patch, which translates to a .020" patch.  I've never had a problem with a .020" patch and a ball that is .005" under bore size - in any barrel, regardless of calibre.  One must use a bit more force when seating the ball - no prolem.

If your bore has rounded bottomed rifling, it will need even thicker patches as the rifling will be at least .016" deep - normally.

Offline Herb

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2009, 05:25:24 AM »
Daryl, you quoted my Wigle flintlock loads.  The 32" Johnston rifle got 1842 with 90 grains of Goex 2F.  The Joel Ferree caplock with 80 grains of Goex 2F got 1792  and 1763, five shots each, even faster. 
Herb

Daryl

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2009, 04:18:41 PM »
My .58RB chronograph testing back in the late 70's showed a difference from 70fps to 150fps (depending on the charge) when changing between spit, bear grease or neatsfoot oil lubed patches.  The lower the charge volume, the bigger the spread.  Something to consider.  Both types of oil/grease lubes doubled shot to shot velocity spreads as well, up into the low teens, while a newly opened can of Pyrodex, doubled those again, using either lube.  Found the same difference between Pyrodex and real BP in the .45/70, as well.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 04:20:14 PM by Daryl »

jamesthomas

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2009, 10:48:27 PM »
 Daryl , i wrote LB. that i'll be going to the range later this week. I'll try some goex and go to a thicker patch. Also i'll reduce the load down to 60grns of 3ff swiss and see if that reduces my fouling.That should still give me about 1700 fps.I'll let you guys know how is turns out.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2009, 12:16:17 AM »
1,900fps with a .54 with 90gr. FFF Swiss is incredible speed. My bro's .50 40" Virginia gets only 1,400fps with 80gr. 2F GOEX.   

I would have to chrono it again, and likely will since its getting a barrel change.
The only thing we checked that day that was faster was the kids 8x57 K-98.

The rifle has a cupped breech which is claimed to increase the velocity. Dunno this is true.
This rifle with 1.5 f Swiss which is very close to ff, shoots about 12" low at 100.

Dan

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Offline Herb

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2009, 06:35:58 AM »
Daryl, here are some of those targets.  The top row was fired June 14, 2005 with no wiping or cleaning after shots or between powder changes.  They are, left to right: 50 grains Goex 3F, 1492/63; 50 Swiss 3F, 1618/12; 80 Swiss 3F, 2030/36 (one bore dressing shot off-target, but shot # 4, the patch blew, so deleted that velocity, which was 1884 fps).  Five shots in that little group at top; and 80 Goex 2F, 1750/44.

Bottom row was shot July 21.  Left to right, 50 Goex 3F, 1503/29; 50 Swiss 3F, 1623/21; 80 Swiss 2F, 1857/39; 80 Goex 2F, 1714/50.  No wiping or cleaning after shots or between powder changes.  I did not have any trouble with hard fouling in the Swiss powder with these charges.  This is the Jacob Wigle flintlock I built.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 06:21:51 PM by Herb »
Herb

Daryl

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2009, 06:20:22 PM »
Tks, Herb - By the looks of that bottom target, I'd be re-testing that 80gr. 2F GOEX and if the accuracy holds, use that for my everything load - everything except for moose, that is.  That day, the 21st. it also liked the 50gr. 3f GOEX, but except for shooting bunnies, I'd not use it for anything.  I do prefer to use one load for everything - the larger bore rifle, though, gets tiring after 50 shots of hunting/accuracy loads, so I have two loads for it.  One for plinking and one for serious work.

Grouping shown is normal for a string of groups with a single powder charge using a round or square bull.  I'm going to try that band of black for an aiming pount and see what happens. Target appearance over the sights is very important to grouping.  A small change in appearance , whether it's the aiming point's shape or the lighting, can make a big difference in group.

jamesthomas

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2009, 10:15:19 PM »
 Herb, thats some good shootin!, what was the range of these shots ? you did'nt say and i can't read the imformation on those white cards

Offline Herb

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2009, 05:18:55 AM »
They were 50 yards from rest.
Herb

Offline Herb

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2009, 06:36:36 AM »
Daryl, I appreciate your sharing with us how you get MLs to shoot so well.  Tried your tight patch suggestion today, but I ain't smart enough to make it work.  Used my .58 fullstock flint Hawken I built, .570 cast balls.  Used up some old (1980 and 1995 blended) Pyrodex RS just for the $#*! of it.  Filled my measure at 120 grains and tapped it to settle it to add about 10 grains of Goex 2F on top.  Dumped that down the barrel.  Added a dry 7/8" wool overpowder wad (from a sweater), then .020 red 10 ounce canvas Wal Mart patching, lubed with Murphy Oil Soap and alcohol.  Had to hammer the short starter (with a hammer!) to get it started.  Still blew the patch.  Tried three of those, then went to .022 yellow awning material from Wal Mart, same results.  Then to .015 pillow ticking, which worked better.  Shot 8 shots, six good patches averaged 1776 fps.  Had a couple of hangfires with this patent breech, but cured that.  Picked the vent, primed with my three grain valve and tipped that into the vent.  Added another push of 3 grains.  That worked flawlessly.  (I learned that technique using Swiss 1 1/2 and Swiss 2 in this rifle).

Then I went to Triple 7  2F  but had to reduce that to 90 grains ( plus the 10 grains black boost) to get the velocity down to 1810 fps.  Now I used .020 OxYoke patches, which worked good.  Last two shots went into 1.1" at 100 yards.  Fired a total of 22 shots of Pyrodex RS and Triple 7, no flashes in the pan, the only problem is torn patches.  Heavier overpowder wads are the answer.

Maybe .620 balls would work better.  I did not cone this muzzle, but think I will now.           
Herb

Daryl

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2009, 08:15:40 PM »
I'd be using real black powder. I've never gotten the phoney powders to shoot well, or as well as real BP.  I don't have any guns that prefer the use of wads and I don't have any guns that are difficult to load with a ball that is .005" under bore size with a .022" denim patch. I don't use canvas material, but do sometimes use a pocket drill if it's heavy enough for the ball and bore, as in the .017/.018" stretchy one way drill that I use with a .400" ball in my .40 with the .398" bore.  This loads a bit stiffer than a .396" ball and the heavier .0215" (10 oz.) denim. The thread going one way is kinked and therefore shows some stretch - it is 100% pure cotton. We easily seated a .508" ball in Taylor's 'Rice' .50 barrel with rounded rifling using this material - without any cuts by the lands. It's pretty tough- too bad the store I got it from for testing went out of buisiness. What I've got is all I'll ever find - probably. I have to save it for that one barrel.  It holds up OK with no burns using a .395" ball, but accuracy is not as good as a heavier patch gives.

The only gun I have which will allow a loose combination is the .32.  A .311" ball and .017" 8oz. denim works just fine in it, but that material is too loose in everything else.  This material measures .020" with calipers, but even though it is closely woven denim, it does not hold up in any other gun I have, even with a ball only .005" under bore size.

Use what works for you, herb.  You've gotten some excellent shooting using both Swiss and GOEX and whatever ball and patch combos you used.  Stick with them.

I've found loads the ball and patch combos I now use will not 'blow' or burn the patch with any charge you want to put in the gun and as all the videos we've done show, loading is what we call easy.  The video last winter taken on our trail where I was shotoing the .45 was a .445" pure lead ball and .0215" 10 oz. denim patch. this stuff measures .024" to .025" with calipers depending how tightly you squeeze the jaws between thumb and forefinger.  It goes .0215" with my mic, and is easy to load. With the starter nub on the patched ball at the muzzle and in it goes to 1/4" below the muzzle's crown. One whach on the starter and it's down 7", then 2 or 3 pushes with a choked rod and it's on the powder.  Easy as can be.

In my .574" bore Enfield, I use the same  12oz. denim patches with a .562" ball as I use with a .684" ball in the .69's .690" bore.  This material measures .025" with the mic and .030" with calipers.  The starter's knob is moose antler which gives momentum to the blow of seating the ball flush with the muzzle, using the short nub and hitting the starter's knob with my hand, or whacking the ball with the end in a downward pounding motion with the starter's shaft clenched in my fist and hitting the ball with the knob's top surface.  Either way, one whack puts it flush with the crown.  In both guns, this ball and patch combination is quite tight, but no charge will damage the patches.  I've picked them up off the ground after testing, then re-wet them with lube and used them for a trail walk the next time I shot it. Examining those patches showed I could have used them again, quite easily.  When you are using such tight combinations with a large ball, there is a lot of lead movement so the 'force' must be with you. :D

Some materials are 'softer' than others while some are more compressible due to having greater 'loft' in the thread or weave. Denim has this loft I think, compared to canvas or some linens and might be more compressible due to it.

A lot of washed materials that still show a resistance to bending, feel hard in comparrison, will also show synthetic material in their matrix - not much, but say, 10% for example.  I had a swatch of this sort of material that shot amazingly well in the .45 and .40, but it was so stiff as to being like trying to set your ball on a piece of board across the muzzle and balance it there while you get the strater out to smack in down flush.

I see a lot of people using their starter like a hammer, tap, tap, tap.  Each 'tap' damages the ball by crushing the top surface and this slugs it up, where-as one 'blow' of the starter's knob puts it down flush with the crown without damaging it other than a small flat spot.

We've discussed this somewhat and feel that perhaps one's upbringing such as scrapping, outdoors activities, always using great amounts of energy sort of thing as a youngster and fighting as a teen and thus chosen vocation ie; Carpenter, labourer or say Peace officer or Military where force is a common tool, versa, say a Dr. or Accountant, show extremes in energy output as a common activity. This normal activity might have something to do with one shooter having no difficulty seating a tight combination, while another might think it's too hard or too tight.  How much energy is expended in seating the ball flush depends a lot on how much you are willing to expend, thus one gives the ball a whack with one blow using as much force as needed for that combination, whereas someone else might resort to a hammer and have to use multiple blows.  I'm trying to find the answer or solution - we find these combiantions easy to load, while others find them difficult. It's frustrating.

The use of wads can somtimes help with loose combinations I'm told, but, in my comparrison accuracy tests, the rifles I've used with them show much better accuracy without wads., except for the 14 bore - it didn't care one way or the other, no change.

 

Offline heelerau

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Re: Neatsfoot oil
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2021, 10:40:17 AM »
Has anyone got a recipe for clarified Neatfoot oil? I seem to remember you put it in a clear jar with a strip of lead and over a few weeks it changed the nature of the. oil. I have the method in a book somewhere and I cannot for the life of me find it or even a reference on the internet.
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !