What are the faults of the L & R flintlocks? Technical question only!

[rich pierce]

The Rifle Shoppe offers assembled locks for $250. Make sure they are in stock.  It's quite a job assembling a lock from castings and am surprised folks will do it for the prices we pay for locks.  Of course if doing 20, and you have jigs set up, and can turn 20 tumblers, etc etc, it's a different deal.  For 1-offs, I'd be surprised if you could find someone to do it for under $200.

[Acer Saccharum]

Rich, who was the guy with that neat trade gun at Dixon's? Made his own lock. I think he said it took him three weeks.

I built a lock from TRS, and it took me three weeks, I decided to use Siler internals, but ended up making my own tumbler. Man, what a job. I got it done, and I got an education, but i can't imagine banging an entire lock out of iron.

Tom

[smshea]

I don't know him very well but I've had several Bill Slusser assembled locks in my shop for one reason or another and been very impressed with the work . Ive not had him assemble a lock myself,  but the prices I was hearing from the owners of the locks seemed very reasonable.

 Also Chris Laubach knows more about building locks from scratch , proper architecture and assembling locks than anyone I know. If hes not too busy with his own stuff he might do it.

[Dphariss]

Well it musn't be boring!!  

The struggle I have, is that a hobbyist without a machine shop or an acetylene torch/anvil..... I need to be able to buy parts that I can count on to work... or else I have to pay someone else to build and tune the lock....

I think its just cheaper to buy from........... 

So if I need a lock that I have buy as castings....who are the quality lock builders out there who will build tune and harden etc for fair price??

Fair?? Shop time is worth 30-50 bucks an hour.
A GOOD lock is worth about $250-300 and this only allows the builder 2-4 hours (depending on the cost of the "kit") shop time to build it unless he does them all the time and is set up the make that lock its tough.
The problem here is that folks don't want to pay for a premium lock. They are available but not for 120-150 bucks.
And I got another news flash for you considering the cost of everything  the cost of the locks now on the market is sure to go up. EVERYTHING has gone through the roof. Aluminum rounds I buy are about double from 2 years ago for example from $20 odd to $40 odd.
Bob Roller still makes locks but he sells them to Europe for the most part since American MLs are too cheap to buy them. Not calling names its just a fact.
Dan

[northmn]

^{Fair?? Shop time is worth 30-50 bucks an hour.
A GOOD lock is worth about $250-300 and this only allows the builder 2-4 hours (depending on the cost of the "kit") shop time to build it unless he does them all the time and is set up the make that lock its tough.
The problem here is that folks don't want to pay for a premium lock. They are available but not for 120-150 bucks.
And I got another news flash for you considering the cost of everything  the cost of the locks now on the market is sure to go up. EVERYTHING has gone through the roof. Aluminum rounds I buy are about double from 2 years ago for example from $20 odd to $40 odd.
Bob Roller still makes locks but he sells them to Europe for the most part since American MLs are too cheap to buy them. Not calling names its just a fact.
Dan
[/quote]}

I absolutely have no argument there.  Forged springs are better, machined parts are tougher and can be made thinner etc.  Folks will pay $250+ for a match barrel but will use a $130 lock.  The lock trigger system is as important to practical accuracy as the barrel is to precision.  I do not have a machine shop but somehow struggle by in tuning locks and making them from kits.  But the time as mentioned above and the value of that time applies to me personally as well as for the pro.  A Siler lock kit sells for $85, the finished lock for $135.  For $50 dollars I have to decide to spend a few hours polishing and assembling a kit or buying a lock that works.  Sometimes I assemble as it is a hobby, but I am getting more and more to leaning to assembled.  I would a lot rather do the minor fixups I have Had to do for a L&R than build one.  While I do not question some of the stories I hear about quality, I have had good luck with them.  Some of their weaknesses are in the design of the lock itself.  I had broken frizzen springs at the roller.  A roller in the spring is not a good design.   Original locks went through an evolution.  Some of the early ones had problems also.  The Siler is a very good lock, but it has been around for a very long time.  It is still a favorite of mine for that reason.

DP

[Artificer]

Fair?? Shop time is worth 30-50 bucks an hour.
A GOOD lock is worth about $250-300 and this only allows the builder 2-4 hours (depending on the cost of the "kit") shop time to build it unless he does them all the time and is set up the make that lock its tough.
The problem here is that folks don't want to pay for a premium lock. They are available but not for 120-150 bucks.
And I got another news flash for you considering the cost of everything  the cost of the locks now on the market is sure to go up. EVERYTHING has gone through the roof. Aluminum rounds I buy are about double from 2 years ago for example from $20 odd to $40 odd.
Bob Roller still makes locks but he sells them to Europe for the most part since American MLs are too cheap to buy them. Not calling names its just a fact.
Dan

I could not agree with you more, Dan.  Very few people can make even a bare minimum living doing any kind of gunsmithing today, unless they work on the extremely high dollar guns or are extremely well known and highly specialized.  The internet has actually afforded some relief in regards to getting enough work to some gunsmiths so that they can still keep in business. 

About five or six years ago, I met a lad who had graduated from Trinidad College with a degree in gunsmithing.  I inspected his work and it was good.  I referred as many people to him as I could.  To make a long story short, after about a year and a half, he gave up gunsmithing to feed, clothe and house his wife and daughter.  He made almost three times as much putting up dry wall as he ever made in gunsmithing.  He still works in contracting for a living and only does a little gunsmithing on the side. 

When I helped instruct a course at The Colorado School of Trades earlier this year, I told many students they would probably have to do the same thing if they didn't find jobs in the gun factories. 

[Stophel]

I build most anything anymore out of the Siler "gunmakers' " lock kit.  I basically don't get paid for doing it.     Or, I haven't so far, but will from now on.

[Dphariss]

I build most anything anymore out of the Siler "gunmakers' " lock kit.  I basically don't get paid for doing it.     Or, I haven't so far, but will from now on.

These are valuable if the gun you are building allows that style lock but its tough to make one of these from a "gunmakers kit".

Dan

[Dennis Glazener]

Ok guys lets start a new thread. This one has about run its course.

I am locking this topic.
Dennis