Elk Rifle Idea Question

[Panzerschwein]

Well hi. I have been thinking about commissioning an elk and black bear rifle made and am wondering if one could get a .54 caliber swamped barrel of 42” in length and make a rifle that wouldn’t weigh more than 8 lbs, preferable more like 7 lbs. Possible with a maple stock? Thinking a simple Pennsylvania school rifle would be neat.

[borderdogs]

Although not similar to what you are looking for I plan to build a plains type rifle with Hawken features percussion in .58 halfstock and a barrel 1" hooked and a length of 28". I have most of the parts for this project but it will be a little while before I start it. I plan to use it like a saddle rifle for a possible future elk or buffalo hunt.

I will be interested in what you come up with.
Rob

[tecum-tha]

I have no idea why you'd want a 42" barrel in the elk woods.
Jaeger rifle with 26-28" and with the largest caliber for the barrel weight. You will carry this gun for miles and miles.
Not much shooting past 100 yards as in most elk states open sights are required. Get a good sling because you will climb a lot over trees if you plan to kill something outside of a 10k private land outfitted hunt.

[rich pierce]

It’s hard to get a 42” swamped .54 barrel that weighs under 4.3 pounds. Longrifles often weigh barrel weight plus 3 pounds or plus 3.5 pounds for stock and hardware. So, you’re looking at 7.3-7.8 pounds in the best case scenario, depending on many factors.

[Bsharp]

Think of a Jeager or and English Sporter styled rifle.

A 32" barrel is too long!

Big bore, light barrel, straight stock, 2.1/2"s of drop. Wide butt plate!!!

This gun will be carried much more than shot.

Then there are horses, they can be a challenge, even with a shorter barrel.

[ShutEyeHunter]

I have no idea why you'd want a 42" barrel in the elk woods.
Jaeger rifle with 26-28" and with the largest caliber for the barrel weight. You will carry this gun for miles and miles.
Not much shooting past 100 yards as in most elk states open sights are required. Get a good sling because you will climb a lot over trees if you plan to kill something outside of a 10k private land outfitted hunt.

I second that. I’ve never fallen in love with the Jaeger look, but after 10 or 15 years of elk hunting in the Colorado mountains with a T/C “Hawken”, I really wish I had a short barrel, biggest possible caliber rifle with sling swivels. In addition to climbing over trees, I do a l lot of “swimming” under oak brush. & Not historically correct, maybe, but I find peep sights to be much better for the dark timber around here

[bob in the woods]

If you want a long rifle I'd take a hard look at something along the lines of a Chambers Isaac Haines.  Swamped 38 in barrel, in .54 , the rifle would be well balanced and a joy to shoot.
The 4 inch difference between 42 and 38 inches really makes the rifle handle differently IMO
Another option is something like Cabin Creek's  Mountain Rifle. The 38 in swamped barrel rifle
is around 7 pounds 

[ShutEyeHunter]

Think of a Jeager or and English Sporter styled rifle.

A 32" barrel is too long!

Big bore, light barrel, straight stock, 2.1/2"s of drop. Wide butt plate!!!

This gun will be carried much more than shot.

Then there are horses, they can be a challenge, even with a shorter barrel.

I like the look of English sporting rifles, I should build one of those.
My track record says you’ll carry the thing 80 hours and shoot it once.  Wouldn’t even consider not having sling swivels. The lace on/ slip on ones keep slipping around and wear the browning off the barrel
If I was going to build one, I’d lean toward a 58 cal. If I found a barrel I liked. Colorado just upped their minimum PRB caliber to 54 & I’d like to stay ahead of the game. I can only use conicals in my 50 cal now

[Daryl]

I personally think the .58 cal. is a good choice. while I like a weight of 9 to 9 1/2 pounds, I'm still a young 71, so that weight isn't a problem, yet.

[ShutEyeHunter]

I personally think the .58 cal. is a good choice. while I like a weight of 9 to 9 1/2 pounds, I'm still a young 71, so that weight isn't a problem, yet.

I’m only 70, so I must be getting weaker sooner. Or maybe the 11,000 ft altitude bothers me more than it used to. If I could get it down to 6lb, I would;-)
I can carry a 9 lb fowler in pheasant country, but not up where the air is thinner than it used to be;-)

[ShutEyeHunter]

I wish the subject of English sporting rifles had not come up. I have too many rifles half finished. Jim Chambers has a good candidate. https://www.flintlocks.com/rifles05.htm

About 7 3/4 lb. I’d build in in 58 cal, figure out how to put sling swivels and a peep sight on it and go chase elk

If I was starting from scratch, I’d build it half stock and percussion (heresy, but if I’m carrying around for a week in the snow and rain,  I’d want to be sure it went off and I can’t really test it for reliability at hunting altitude)

Plus, I think there wouldn’t have been many flint rifles in Colorado when the more remote regions were settled. It was 1860 before it was recognized as a territory. Pikes Peak gold rush was 1858

[Jerry V Lape]

I am quite happy carrying a .54 for elk in AZ.  Don Getz and Jim Chambers suggested the Chamber's  Isacc Haines for the purpose of elk.  Finished it weighs 7.5 lbs.  It only has a 38inch barrel however.  It is accurate but with an elk load of 90grains of Swiss FFg  it does tend to pull the forend and barrel upward quite forcefully.  Since I shoot with a rather soft left hand grip the forend gets away a little.  The current one I am building in .54 will have 42" barrel and will probably be a pound heavier on the barrel end.  I am only 81 so the extra pound won't make much difference. I figured if I were concerned about getting tired carrying the extra weight that dropping a few pounds around the belt would make up for it. So I took off 60lbs and dropped type 2 diabetes in the bargain as well.

[Osprey]

Go down in size to a 38" barrel and find one in Octagon/Round profile.  It cuts off an amazing amount of weight.  My main hunting rifle is that in .58, its a Colerain barrel, weighs in just about 6lbs.  Even a really dense and heavy stick of hard maple wouldn't put it over 7lbs with that profile.

[alacran]

Geez! why all this need for a sling? Most of my elk hunting is done in the junipers. Most of the time I cradle my rifle. Even when hunting with CF rifles I carry the rifle. Only time I would use a sling is when packing meat back to truck or camp. If I was packing long distance, I would lash rifle to my pack. I f I am hunting in steep terrain the rifle can be used to balance your weight on inclines.
I would never put a sling on anything other than a Jaeger.

[Daniel Coats]

Lots of great advice, for me a 42 inch barrel was never a problem but liked the 38 inch on a Issac Haines style rifle better. The Issac Haines handled like a trap gun a buddy of mine once told me. Of course this is all assuming you're only going to have 1 gun so get your 42 if that's what you want and if a shorter gun makes sense then get another. 

I've always had a house full of special purpose guns long short and otherwise. I took two rifles to Alaska so I could have a choice in the field.

Let us know what you decide!

[ShutEyeHunter]

Geez! why all this need for a sling? Most of my elk hunting is done in the junipers. Most of the time I cradle my rifle. Even when hunting with CF rifles I carry the rifle. Only time I would use a sling is when packing meat back to truck or camp. If I was packing long distance, I would lash rifle to my pack. I f I am hunting in steep terrain the rifle can be used to balance your weight on inclines.
I would never put a sling on anything other than a Jaeger.

I like slings;-). When I’m going back in a mile or so, I find it easier & faster to get from place to place (using a trail) if I use a sling. Also lets me use a hiking staff on really steep stuff, in the dark, or with snowshoes. I cradle the rifle when I’m actually hunting and lash the staff to my daypack

[Mike Brooks]

You guys make elk hunting sound like no fun at all.

[rich pierce]

You guys make elk hunting sound like no fun at all.

I agree 100%. I can only guess that elk inhabit a variety of mountain habitats, and some are like a wall of blackberry briars growing on a jackstraw 50% slope . I’d stay away from those.

[Daniel Coats]

Elk hunting ain't shopping that's for sure!

[Daniel Coats]

Elk hunting in Colorado varies greatly by when you do it. Early fall hunts are high elevation mountain hunting with cool mornings and hot afternoons. Late December the snow drives them to lower elevations typically rolling sagebrush hills and wide open grain fields. Either hunt   requires getting an early before dawn start so you can be ready at first legal shooting light. Elk will move to cover by mid morning which can set up opportunities for ambush if you know where they're going.

In my youth I chose to hunt the mountains where a short barrel had the advantage. Later I switched to winter hunts where any barrel length works. Knee pads like roofing contractors use and extra warm clothing makes crawling through the snow and sagebrush much more pleasant and possible to stalk even mid day in the winter.

All elk hunting is fun it's just different depending on when which dictates where.

[rsherman]

Panzer,
I think a c weight . 54 profile from the getz/colerain
Pattern would  be a good starting point for what you're trying for in a 42 inch barrel. I've built several hunting rifles on that
Pattern and they carry quite nicely.
  I went to Co. on an elk hunt last year and carried my big christian spring style . 54 with a D weight colerain 42 in barrrl
.  Put on alot of miles in the high country. It was heavy but i did it.  Alot of the time i was thinking that a lighter 38" with a sling would be nice.

[flehto]

HUNTED  ELK IN  CO FOR MANY YEARS  AND USED A .54 HAWKEN THAT I BUILT AND IT HAD A SLING WHICH TO ME IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF ALL THE WALKING THAT WAS DONE.....VERY LITTLE SITTING. THE RIFLE WEIGHED 9 LBS WHICH WAS AN ACCEPTABLE WEIGHT.

BUILT ANOTHER .54 HAWKEN   FOR A FELLOW ELK HUNTER AND IT ONLY WEIGHED 8 LBS AND IT HAD A 35" TAPERED BBL THAT HAD A BREECH DIM OF 1"AND WAS 7/8" AT THE MUZZLE. IT ALSO HAD A SLING. THE OWNER SAID IT WAS AN ALL DAY GUN.

THOUGHT ABOUT A .58 CAL BUT WHEN THE TRAJRCTORY WAS CONSIDERED, STAYED W/ THE .54.....ONE ELK I SHOT WAS AT A PACED OFF 107 YDS AND THE .54 PRB ALLOWED 40 YDS MOVEMENT AFTER THE SHOT.....FRED

[Daryl]

We have elk hunting too, but it looks more like this:
I've never seen one on a road, though. The rest of it is rather up and down.

[Ezra]

Well, for one thing, hunting elk ain’t like hunting deer.  Hunting elk is serious work, albeit fun.  I always use a sling, and where I hunt in the Washington Cascade mountains, I have never had an issue using my 44” barreled Lancaster (.58 caliber).  And that’s in steep timber.  A sling comes in handy on very steep slopes when you need all fours to get up the slope.

Ez

[Birddog6]

Well hi. I have been thinking about commissioning an elk and black bear rifle made and am wondering if one could get a .54 caliber swamped barrel of 42” in length and make a rifle that wouldn’t weigh more than 8 lbs, preferable more like 7 lbs. Possible with a maple stock? Thinking a simple Pennsylvania school rifle would be neat.

Not gonna happen unless you have a really light (=weak) piece of soft maple.  Definitely not 7# unless you go with a B50 Barrel.. 

I also sometimes wonder if these guys look at the rifle & say "Yep, she's bout a 7-7.5# rifle".      A finished rifle on digital scales give actual weight. Balance of the rifle has allot to do with what guys think is light or heavy.  I built a 10# Lancaster rifle for a guy to elk hunt with, 42" 58D swamped barrel. 7 dif guys picked it up & shouldered it & the weight guess was 8 1/2 to 9#.   None believed it was 9# 15oz til I showed them on the digital scale.

I have built 5 rifles for elk hunters.  3 were D58 cal x 42"long & 1 was C54 cal x 42" long barrel & 1 was C54 cal x 38" long. All were Lancaster style rifles. the Lancasters with a .58 D weight x 42" & weighed right at 10#.. The .54 C x 42"  was 9#, and the   .54C x 38" was 8.5# 

Any time I would build for someone doing allot of trekking, density & strength of the wood was very important. Wrist grain structure is imperative it be the best. For some a slight bump & broken wrist can cost them several thousand $ & end the hunt unsuccessful for them, & now watch others hunt because they are miles from nowhere & they can't trek back alone.  NONE of the 5 rifles I built for elk hunters were concerned about the weight. They wanted Strong, Durable, Balance.  For others it may be just a few miles down the road & can come back next week.