Questions/Comments Request Concerning the TOW Jaqcob Dickert Kit

[Mike M]

I am an experienced woodworker and non-professional gunsmith who has never dabbled in flintlocks before. I would like to build a Jacob Dickert style rifle, as much for it's historical significance as it is the fact that he was "local" to me (I live in south/eastern PA just a few miles east of Lancaster). I have been doing a lot of research for the past year, and have purchased a dozen books for reference, as well as watched a few dozen long rifle builds on YouTube (I particularly liked the "Homemade History" guy from Germany who did a nice Dickert-esque rifle). So here's my plan ...

I'm going to order the Track of the Wolf kit parts separately in a matter of sorts. I will be ordering the Dickert pre-shaped, but not inlet, stock, the Colerain .50 cal 7/8" straight barrel w/breach plug, Chambers Deluxe lock w/white lightnin' touch hole,  Double Lever Double Set Trigger, Isaac Haines trigger guard, Lancaster style buttplate, shallow crescent muzzle cap, the 3/8 brass tipped ramrod, screw and pin set, plans for Isaac Haines/Lancaster rifle, Slim Kentucky rear sight, patch box release kit, and the various pin and screw sets to go with the Dickert style. I plan on making my own brass furniture other than the wax cast parts mentioned above.

So with all that said, does anyone see any issues with that approach? Any other suggestions?

[smylee grouch]

With that introduction I would buy a Chambers Lancaster kit. It would be more authentic IMHO. 

[Mike M]

I'd thought about that, but I don't think Chambers has an option for a non-inlet stock. Or am I wrong there? Plus I really didn't want to get inletting a swamped barrel on my first try at this.

[Dennis Glazener]

I would get one with a swamped barrel far better balanced rifle plus its more period correct. That early a rifle would never have had a straight barrel.

Dunlap Wood Craft Hass an early Lancaster kit that I used to make an early Dickert rifle. I chose a 54 cal C profile barrel. I loved the handling of that rifle.

Most kits have fully inletted barrel channels, either for swamped or straight. The Dunlap is fully inlet for swamped barrel and Siler lock.
Dennis

[Dave Marsh]

I would call Chambers and tell them what you want and see what they say.  Can't hurt to ask and they are always helpful.  I would also go with a swamped barrel.  Good luck.

[rick/pa]

I would order the stock from Pecatonica. I understand they do the stocks for TOW but I might be wrong. You can specify the swamp barrel inlet but no lock inlet. Or buy a plank from Dave Keck and have him do the barrel inlet and ramrod channel and hole. I've done both and have been satisfied either way.

[mgbruch]

I'll put my two cents in for the swamped barrel.  If you end up a dedicated flintlock shooter, you will eventually want a swamped barrel.  Your gun, as planned, may look like a Dickert rifle, but it wont feel or handle like one.  And if you start handling long guns with swamped barrels, you'll quickly realize the difference.

My advice for your first flinter is to get a kit with a swamped barrel, and the barrel channel and ramrod groove/hole already done.  Wthout that work, there is still much to be learned when building.  How a gun goes together, the relationship between parts, inletting, and paying attention to all the many different lines that make up the architecture of a flintlock longrifle.

Ive owned two different longrifles that had straight barrels.  I don't own either of them now.

[Daryl]

I guess it depends on what you want, as to swamped or not.  Historically, the swamped barrel is likely correct. As for an offhand rifle for rendezvous, swamped does not hold a candle to my
42" 7/8".40 and .45 calibre straight octagonal barrels. Originally, my rifle had a 7/8" x .50 barrel and it was too light on the barrel, for offhand shooting, IMHO. A 15/16" x42 x .50 would be about perfect. Now, if about 46" x 7/8" x .50 straight oct. would likely be OK.

[Birddog6]

I am an experienced woodworker and non-professional gunsmith who has never dabbled in flintlocks before. I would like to build a Jacob Dickert style rifle, as much for it's historical significance as it is the fact that he was "local" to me (I live in south/eastern PA just a few miles east of Lancaster). I have been doing a lot of research for the past year, and have purchased a dozen books for reference, as well as watched a few dozen long rifle builds on YouTube (I particularly liked the "Homemade History" guy from Germany who did a nice Dickert-esque rifle). So here's my plan ...

I'm going to order the Track of the Wolf kit parts separately in a matter of sorts. I will be ordering the Dickert pre-shaped, but not inlet, stock, the Colerain .50 cal 7/8" straight barrel w/breach plug, Chambers Deluxe lock w/white lightnin' touch hole,  Double Lever Double Set Trigger, Isaac Haines trigger guard, Lancaster style buttplate, shallow crescent muzzle cap, the 3/8 brass tipped ramrod, screw and pin set, plans for Isaac Haines/Lancaster rifle, Slim Kentucky rear sight, patch box release kit, and the various pin and screw sets to go with the Dickert style. I plan on making my own brass furniture other than the wax cast parts mentioned above.

So with all that said, does anyone see any issues with that approach? Any other suggestions?

A few suggestions:

Took me a long time & a bunch of rifles bought & sold to figure out a buyer needs to actually SHOULDER  a like rifle before ya build it.  I would build them, but not enjoy shooting them.  I absolutely Love a well built Hawken rifle. Looks, feel, etc.  But for me it is like shouldering a 8' boat oar.   (I said for me, some like it that way)
I have built several Dickerts. One had a 42" 7/8" barrel in .50 cal.  Too nose heavy for me. Built one almost identical
with a 42"  B50 swamped barrel.  Lordy what  difference that made.  Nothing shoulders like a rifle with a swamped barrel. IMHO  It felt like that rifle weighed 2# less than the other one.

I would wait on the muzzlecap until you get the stock & see how much web thickness you have between the barrel & the RR groove. A shallow Cresent muzzlecap may not be right. May need a std one. (Taller)

When I look at a ML, I start from one end & go all the way to the end.  If you have a big gap between the RR & the Muzzle, I will stop looking right there. I want the RR gently touching the muzzlecap, not a 1/8" gap. This gap can be eliminated on the stock if it has it, but it is allot of work.

Since this is your first build, go ahead & buy the Dickert Sideplate, Dickert Triggerguard, & Dickert Patchbox (if using a patchbox).  FYI, the entrypipe on the Dickert kit is not correct.  If you want a correct one, you have to make it.  Flehto on here is a expert on them & possibly can give some guidance on how to make a correct one.

As for the triggerguard, I would buy a Dicker TG.  If you get a Lancaster or a Bivins, it is close to correct, but make sure you have a med or large triggerguard for the double set triggers.  If you jam them in a small one there is no room left for your trigger finger unless you have very slender fingers. The DST will easily fits in the large Lancaster guard. In a med size one you may need to recontour the set trigger curvature a tad.

There is this rifle close to what you are speaking of on my web sight, without patchbox. I made it for a guy for a hunting rifle & he didn't want the patchbox.  If you do the patchbox, it is imperative it latch very securely.  If you hunt in brush & that style patchbox opens & hangs a vine, you will be replacing it & one pi$$ed off dude. 

All in all, this makes a nice rifle, but I want the swamped barrel. 

Oh....... before I forget, if this stock has a Lock Inlet ?  Strip the lock & put the lockplate in 75% of the way FIRST, then move the barrel back to where you want the vent hole according to the Flashpan center.  On a TOW precarve, you do the barrel in first you will have a problem, as the vent will be right into the breechplug threads.

Good Luck

Keith

PS:  Not all rifle Furniture is the same.  If you are buying the stock from TOW, get the sideplate, buttplate, toeplate, RR pipes as well From TOW, unless you are experienced on what will work & what will not. Several times I've had people send me parts THEY bought for a rifle for me to build, lordy what a mess.  Save yourself allot of aggravation, get it all one place if you can. 

 

[t.caster]

You should check out Dave Keck at Knob Mountain Muzzleloading for pre-carves and swamp barrels. He has nice patterns with no lock inletting (I like that). He has a full set of appropriate parts for you.

[rick/pa]

Keith Lisle has set you straight....."Nothing shoulders like a rifle with a swamped barrel. IMHO  It felt like that rifle weighed 2# less than the other one."........Amen....After 9 rifles I finally built one I like. It's a 38" Colerain "B"  .50 caliber with no patchbox and a single trigger. It balances well, handles good, no messing with set triggers, and after dumping a patchbox on another rifle in brush I learned not to put cleaning jag, flints, balls and small screwdriver into it, carried them in the pouch instead.

And t.caster is correct about Dave Keck since you are near to him. I had Dave do one for me and picked it up when we went to Harrisburg to visit our daughter.  You'll like his work.

[utseabee]

Mike,

   Looks like you live pretty close to me. If you send me a PM, we can meetup and I can let you look at a few custom built rifles and an original Lancaster  for you to get the feel for what they should be like. I doubt that you will go for a straight barrel once you have held an original.
John

[john bohan]

I second Dave Keck, he can inlet the barrel, drill the ramrod hole and pre shape the butt stock. you will  do much better drilling pin holes on a square fore end than round pre shaped one. Dave also has more grades to pick from.

[Marcruger]

Here's gold.  An experienced longrifle guy who offers his help.  Take him up on it.  Your plans may well change for the better.   :-) 

"Mike,

   Looks like you live pretty close to me. If you send me a PM, we can meetup and I can let you look at a few custom built rifles and an original Lancaster  for you to get the feel for what they should be like. I doubt that you will go for a straight barrel once you have held an original.
John"

[Mike M]

John,
Sent you a PM.
Mike

Mike,

   Looks like you live pretty close to me. If you send me a PM, we can meetup and I can let you look at a few custom built rifles and an original Lancaster  for you to get the feel for what they should be like. I doubt that you will go for a straight barrel once you have held an original.
John

[Bill Raby]

Inletting a swamped barrel is NOT harder than inletting a straight one. It takes a bit more work to get it all layed out but after that it is all the same. Building from a blank is actually easier than building from a pre-carved stock.

[oldtravler61]

  Mike told ya these guy's and ladies are awesome..! Dave Keck does do excellent work as does David Rase out in Washington state.
But I would if it was my gun. Get a swamped barrel. Never had a problem with shooting with them. Very accurate for all intents and purposes. As for shooting targets. I have that up years ago. Don't taste worth a darn..!  LOL. Oldtravler

[flehto]

I've built a couple of Chambers" early  Lancaster parts sets and they both had only a couple of minor mistakes that were easily fixed. I too think a swamped bbl  is more appropriate. Shown below is one of the finished  Chambers' early Lancaster  parts sets.....Fred.


real talk emojis

[Mike M]

All good advice and points taken. Parts started to arrive today, unfortunately the barrel and lumber are both back-ordered. But, this is pretty!

After much pondering I decided to do all the furniture myself, with the exception of the trigger guard and butt plate. Most of the brass has arrived, but the .040" sheet, of course, is the last to show up. Not sure yet whether I will do the Thimble as a one or two-piece. Perhaps I'll do both and see which I like better. Brass work I can do while waiting on the iron and wood. I'll start a build thread once I get to that point.



post pictures

[Mike Brooks]

Now is the time to bail on the totw stock and straight barrel since they are back ordered anyway.

[Cracker Lee]

   Years ago I ordered everything I needed from TOW to build a Southern Mountain Rifle. They sent me everything except the breech plug which they back ordered. It took me 6 months to get that breech plug. Be patient.

[Birddog6]

Anytime you order from TOW, if they don't have ALL of it, go someplace else, because you are just a number & they just look in the parts bin. When it shows yo in the parts bin, you might get it.  Years ago I ordered a barrel for a rifle I was to build for a guy in 4 mo.  It was just over 6 mo before the barrel came & I already had the rifle almost built with a barrel from Green Mountain.  Course, One time I ordered one from Getz & was told he "Have it in my hand" .  13 months later out of the blue this barrel shows up.  I had built & shipped the rifle 6 mo prev. to that with a Rice barrel in it.  Rice has always been good to me on shipping & doing what they say. If Jason says he has it, it is definitely there.

I will also say, do NOT think any A /B / C  weight barrel is the same, as they are not.  They may be close, but usually not exact.  So best your stock & barrel come from the same place if you are using a precarve. Otherwise you may have some serious barrel inlet gaps to fill. For a newbie, get ALL the parts from the same place, will save you allot of grief. The guy selling the precarve is inletting for HIS avail. parts, not everyone elses version of same part.

[Mike M]

In the absence of wood and barrel, we start on furniture …

[borderdogs]

I have ordered lots of parts and other stuff from TOTW and for the most part I got stuff pretty quickly and I like dealing with them but I have never ordered a kit. I am not sure I would though since it seems a lot of parts are back ordered in some cases months. I have ordered parts sets from Pecatonica and they have been pretty accurate on when they tell me to expect it. Lately, the projects I have planned are made up from components I purchased from various sources for a particular rifle. Since these builds are far enough out lead times are not that important to me.

You have a good approach to working on something while waiting Mike.
Rob

[Mike M]

Actually I boutgh the kit parts separately, rather than buy the entire kit as advertised. If you put the kit in your wish list (on TOW's site), it lists all the parts separately. I deleted what I didn't want, added some I did (which were not included with the kit), and ordered effectively a bill of material. In particular I got the pre-shaped stock, but without in-letting. That way I could get the wood mostly finished, and only have to worry about the important parts. Since this is my first ML build, I'll leave the full stock work to a second build, once I've wet my feet on this one.