Historic Rock Ford exhibition John Rupp rifle

[WESTbury]

Apparently, the John Rupp rifle, Sotheby's Lot 498, that is the subject of Eric's post on the ALR has been invited to be featured in a new exhibition at the Historic Rock Ford institution, beginning in June 2022. This news is per the last paragraph of Sotheby's write-up for Lot#498.

The title of the exhibition is "Longrifles of the American Revolution" and will feature rifles by Lancaster craftsmen that helped win the American Revolution. I'm very curious how a non-Lancaster rifle and equally importantly, a non-Rev War rifle will fit in to that exhibition.

Interestingly, John Kolar is a guest curator.

https://historicrockford.org/long-rifles-of-the-american-revolution/

[Eric Kettenburg]

Of course.  What's a cake without icing?

[WESTbury]

Of course.  What's a cake without icing?

Fruit Cake. Yuck!

[spgordon]

I know most folks have joined this listserv and read posts in this forum to learn about antique arms--but as a historian this particular story is as good as it gets: reputable institutions--first Sotheby's, now [Un]Historic Rock Ford--are collaborating to solidify an utterly improbable-if-not-impossible history for this particular object. And of course they aren't doing this independently of one another, since both have connections to the individual who in 2017 first put into print the improbable-if-not-impossible history. The story shows the power of reputation and connections--networks--over research, argument, and evidence. Ever the optimist, I believe the research, argument, and evidence win out in the long term, but we see here that they don't win in the short term. Amazing to watch in real time.

[Eric Kettenburg]

The genius of it is actually including it - or "inviting" it to be included, since we can't guarantee who will end up winning the Sotheby's bid, right?  wink wink say no more  - along with an esteemed collection of other pieces which may have more legitimacy in terms of being potentially War-era arms.  It's prestige-by-association, an old modus operandi that always seems to work.  At least in the short term.

I plan to keep this going for a long time.  Just sayin' guys.

[spgordon]

Yeah, exactly: the "invitation" secures the shaky history of the rifle since it guarantees it'll be displayed, after purchase, as a Revolutionary War rifle. Genius!

[WESTbury]

I plan to keep this going for a long time.  Just sayin' guys.

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[Eric Kettenburg]

 Well I should have added, actually, "unless my liver explodes." 

[mr. no gold]

If this is a Lancaster display, why is a rifle by'Johannesse Macungie' being featured, Did I miss something?
Dick

[utseabee]

Certainly won't hurt the final auction price! . Anyway, I do think it will be a nice display of PA longrifles even if they're not all actually from the Rev War time period or from Lancaster

[Eric Kettenburg]

If this is a Lancaster display, why is a rifle by'Johannesse Macungie' being featured, Did I miss something?
Dick

Not sure of that myself.  Being suspicious of everyone and everything, though, I'm already wondering if it's an "angle."  I think I've pretty effectively proven that Johannes Rupp of Macungie could not have made this rifle pre-War, regardless of how pregnant the cheek happens to be.

There were Mennonite Rupps down in Lancaster who eventually branched out over to Lebanon and Dauphin area.  There were one or two Johannes Rupp's down there, too, at least one fairly early (1750s-1760s iirc).  I guess if you can't fit the rifle to one Johannes/John, find another to fit the story you want to tell.  Soon, we will all recognize that the Lehigh style originated in Lancaster.

[Mike Brooks]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fish+slap+dance&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dfish%2bslap%2bdance%26form%3dANNTH1%26refig%3dc965b49a51dd41829b0dbe1947cff85b&view=detail&mid=E1FE9800CC0927B3D1E6E1FE9800CC0927B3D1E6&rvsmid=3ED94E2E1004F48F23E33ED94E2E1004F48F23E3&FORM=VDQVAP

[JHeath]

I know most folks have joined this listserv and read posts in this forum to learn about antique arms--but as a historian this particular story is as good as it gets: reputable institutions--first Sotheby's, now [Un]Historic Rock Ford--are collaborating to solidify an utterly improbable-if-not-impossible history for this particular object. And of course they aren't doing this independently of one another, since both have connections to the individual who in 2017 first put into print the improbable-if-not-impossible history. The story shows the power of reputation and connections--networks--over research, argument, and evidence. Ever the optimist, I believe the research, argument, and evidence win out in the long term, but we see here that they don't win in the short term. Amazing to watch in real time.

SPGordon yes it’s fascinating to watch narratives being constructed. Remember the book _Arming America_? Alleging that guns were rare in the 18th and 19th Cent and Americans unfamiliar with them? Won a Bancroft, book of the year from multiple news orgs. Playboy interview of the author. NPR, ad nauseum. A huge orchestrated media campaign.

I was doing militia-clause related legal research and checked some of his citations. Varied from unreasonable interpretations to blatant invention. An undergrad would have been expelled for it. I shared info and consulted with a legal heavyweight whose own work related to historical evidence involved.

Ultimately _Arming America_’s author lost his tenured job, Columbia University rescinded his Bancroft Prize, and publisher Knopf dropped his book.

An exceptional case, because these narratives once constructed can’t be refuted.

I can’t speak to this longrifle but yeah, getting a museum to exhibit an item gives it the appearance of authenticity.

I think the buyer of the disputed Leonardo Da Vinci painting tried to bulldoze the Louvre into displaying it next to the Mona Lisa. They decided to exclude it from their exhibition instead.

[Ats5331]

While the “history” may not be correct, it seems like enough to make me drive over to Lancaster for a day to check it out!

Isn’t it wonderful living in the heartland of Longrifle country? Good ol’ Pennsylvania:)

[spgordon]

SPGordon yes it’s fascinating to watch narratives being constructed. Remember the book _Arming America_? Alleging that guns were rare in the 18th and 19th Cent and Americans unfamiliar with them? Won a Bancroft, book of the year from multiple news orgs. Playboy interview of the author. NPR, ad nauseum. A huge orchestrated media campaign.

Yes, I remember it well. [Un]Historic Rock Ford is serving as the Bancroft Prize here, giving its stamp to legitimize research that's certainly inaccurate and maybe worse...

[WESTbury]

While the “history” may not be correct, it seems like enough to make me drive over to Lancaster for a day to check it out!

Incorrect history on display, is an insult to those who lived the correct history. The heritage of this country is under assault every day and we will inevitably suffer from that assault someday.

[Ats5331]

While the “history” may not be correct, it seems like enough to make me drive over to Lancaster for a day to check it out!

Incorrect history on display, is an insult to those who lived the correct history. The heritage of this country is under assault every day and we will inevitably suffer from that assault someday.

As an American history minor back in school, I agree.

However, isn’t the real scorn of the men who lived it not paying tribute by looking at their preserved works? If we are truly students of the American Longrifle, why would you not want to take the opportunity to go see a variety of works that you can’t see otherwise? Why not go and chat with others at the display and mention how a display should really read?

We have got to lighten up…

[spgordon]

While the “history” may not be correct, it seems like enough to make me drive over to Lancaster for a day to check it out!

Isn’t it wonderful living in the heartland of Longrifle country? Good ol’ Pennsylvania:)

I'm eager to go, too. The Landis Valley exhibit (and catalog) had a few howlers ... but they were only a minor distraction from looking at the objects themselves. And productive, as you say, of a conversation or two.

The issue in this particular case goes a bit beyond mistakes, in in my opinion, but the rifle in question is a fine rifle and with the others on display well worth a trip to Lancaster to see.

[WESTbury]

While the “history” may not be correct, it seems like enough to make me drive over to Lancaster for a day to check it out!

Incorrect history on display, is an insult to those who lived the correct history. The heritage of this country is under assault every day and we will inevitably suffer from that assault someday.

 Why not go and chat with others at the display and mention how a display should really read?

This I agree with.
Hopefully, the people at Historic Rock Ford will be made aware of what's being discussed on this forum and will alter their display design BEFORE the exhibit opens in June.
That will require a person, or persons, with the right credentials in the history of Lancaster and longrifle collecting to get involved in a meaningful manner.

[WESTbury]

We have got to lighten up…

This, I emphatically, do not agree with.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I can see it both ways, to some extent.  If you just like to look at historical arms, study them for artistry and aesthetics and appreciate them as antiques, but are not concerned with the historical fine details other than they are are early American artifacts and tied in to the history of our country, I can see not being too concerned with the nit-picking that some of us obsess over.  That's not a negative, btw:  a rifle such as the John Rupp-signed rifle under discussion can stand on it's own regardless of maker or date of manufacture.  Speaking for myself, conversely, I am interested not only in the arms themselves but also the men who were working in my own trade, and I am researching them not only as historical arms but also as representations of the men that made them.  Viewed through this lens, it is very important to me to at least try to get the details right.  None of us are perfect and new information manifests all the time, but I believe it something of a solemn task to ensure that I'm not making gross errors or blatantly misrepresenting something.  I think this is why this particular situation is so offensive:  people who should know better, and who - with even a small effort at original research - should be more willing to embrace a scholarly approach as representatives of various esteemed organizations, do not seem to be doing so.

[Ats5331]

Call me what you want, but being a younger person who doesn't have the funds to own rifles like this, and being a builder who doesn't have the skills to build something like this, will most likely make me go and see the display.

I will actively engage with others in conversations while there and voice the lack of accuracy in selection of some of the arms in the display.

By some of the logic on here, we all should despise the movies, "Last of the Mohicans" and the "Patriot" for historical inaccuracies in weapons, battles, etc. Both movies drew interest to muzzeloaders and American history.

If this exhibit gets the public excited about and interested in our craft, then let it do it's job. Then we can guide and correct the initially gathered information.

Consummatum est.

[WESTbury]

Call me what you want, but being a younger person who doesn't have the funds to own rifles like this, and being a builder who doesn't have the skills to build something like this, will most likely make me go and see the display.

I think that it is great that some younger people like you are getting into this collecting and building of longrifles. You and others are exactly what this hobby needs. Hope you can encourage some of your friends to go as well.

Manny of us older guys were in the same position as you with regard to limited funds. When I got started, it took me two months to pay off a M1873 Springfield Trapdoor. The total price in 1974 was $185 plus shipping.

Speaking of movies, Drums Along the Mohawk, 1939, was made with actual original flintlock muskets the producers found in Africa. It's a great movie and in color as well. As for Last of the Mohicans, Wes Studi stole the show as Magua in my opinion.

[spgordon]

By some of the logic on here, we all should despise the movies, "Last of the Mohicans" and the "Patriot" for historical inaccuracies in weapons, battles, etc. Both movies drew interest to muzzeloaders and American history.

If this exhibit gets the public excited about and interested in our craft, then let it do it's job. Then we can guide and correct the initially gathered information.

I generally agree (and I'm a historian of early America)--there are times to be sticklers about historical accuracy and other times when it's silly to worry about it. One of the spots to be a stickler, though, I would think, is in auction listings when an institution is selling something (in part) on the basis of what the listing says. "Caveat emptor" doesn't cover somebody who has engaged in deliberate deception or "fraudulent misrepresentation"--which of course is hard to prove but, if proven, can carry penalties.

Regarding the Historic Rock Ford exhibit, this Rupp rifle will not be the "star" of the exhibit--and it seems likely it is being "invited" (according to the Sotheby listing) solely to prop up the mistaken (at best) claims in the listing itself.

Getting people excited about early American longrifles is very important--come to Jacobsburg Historical Society's longrifle museum!--but the real things are cool enough that we don't need to invent a history for this Rupp rifle to include it in the gang of possible Revolutionary War pieces.

[JHeath]

By some of the logic on here, we all should despise the movies, "Last of the Mohicans" and the "Patriot" for historical inaccuracies in weapons, battles, etc. Both movies drew interest to muzzeloaders and American history.

If this exhibit gets the public excited about and interested in our craft, then let it do it's job. Then we can guide and correct the initially gathered information.

I generally agree (and I'm a historian of early America)--there are times to be sticklers about historical accuracy and other times when it's silly to worry about it. One of the spots to be a stickler, though, I would think, is in auction listings when an institution is selling something (in part) on the basis of what the listing says. "Caveat emptor" doesn't cover somebody who has engaged in deliberate deception or "fraudulent misrepresentation"--which of course is hard to prove but, if proven, can carry penalties.

Regarding the Historic Rock Ford exhibit, this Rupp rifle will not be the "star" of the exhibit--and it seems likely it is being "invited" (according to the Sotheby listing) solely to prop up the mistaken (at best) claims in the listing itself.

Getting people excited about early American longrifles is very important--come to Jacobsburg Historical Society's longrifle museum!--but the real things are cool enough that we don't need to invent a history for this Rupp rifle to include it in the gang of possible Revolutionary War pieces.

Yes. And good legwork on that document, that's how it's done.

An academic is accountable to their institution for misrepresentations. Doesn't happen much, but if they cannot publish their poor work it can hold them back professionally.

A curator is accountable to their institution/employer. Unfortunately, they can put any explanation on an exhibit placard and probably get away with it. You can't sue them.

A pop history author isn't accountable to anybody. They can publish whatever nonsense they want. Previously undiscovered documents reveal that an expedition sent by Emperor Wei brought Rupp's rifle back from a trading expedition to Belize 220 years before Columbus, overturning everything you thought you knew about history. Stuff like that sells and you can't get a refund for the book.

I saw something historically incorrect at a Rendezvous. I'm filing a class-action lawsuit. ha ha ha no accountability there.

Ditto websites.

And forums.

But like SPGordon says, an auction house can be accountable for fraud.