Tube Holder

[Feltwad]

Enclosed is a image of a  Tube lock tube holder  for carrying tubes  in the field .It is a simple device made of leather with holes drilled along its side for the tubes  and can be carried  around a person neck   by a long leather cord for handy access.
Feltwad

[Feltwad]

No reply's are tube  lock owners a bit thin on the ground ?
Feltwad

[jbigley]

No reply's are tube  lock owners a bit thin on the ground ?
Feltwad

In this group, I might say "Yes." Seems like mostly flintlock shooters--not a disparagement, just an observation.
Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see pics of your tube lock rifle. Also, pics of the lock, and closeup of the tubes. I didn't know that "tubes" were even available anymore. Do you buy them/ make them/ salvage them/improvise them/ "conjure them up" ? Inquiring minds, etc....
Regards --JB

[Feltwad]

No reply's are tube  lock owners a bit thin on the ground ?
Feltwad

In this group, I might say "Yes." Seems like mostly flintlock shooters--not a disparagement, just an observation.
Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see pics of your tube lock rifle. Also, pics of the lock, and closeup of the tubes. I didn't know that "tubes" were even available anymore. Do you buy them/ make them/ salvage them/improvise them/ "conjure them up" ? Inquiring minds, etc....
Regards --JB
quote]

Yes I have to agree seems that I have entered it in the wrong forums  but it is part of the development of the which I thought would have been of interest .
Feltwad

[JBJ]

Feltwad,
Are tubes available today? If not, how are they improvised?
J.B.

[Feltwad]

Feltwad,
Are tubes available today? If not, how are they improvised?
J.B.
[/quote
To my  knowledge no I  made my own from copper tube from a model shop and primed  with the compound from a Musket top hat cap
Feltwad

[Keith Zimmerman]

Im clueless to be honest.

[acorn20]

Well, Keith beat me to it.  I know what a tube lock rifle looks like but I have know idea what a tube lock tube holder is.  I don't know how a tube lock ignites nor do I know what a "tube" or "tube holder" has to do with a tube lock rifle.  Would one of you fellows care to elaborate and educate a poor, Pennsyltuckian?

[Feltwad]

If you take a look at the image  the tube lock holder has I said is a piece of leather about 5 inches long along the sides of this is drilled a 1/16 hole a 1/4 inch deep  about 1/2 inch apart  ,you then take each tube with the loaded end and  fix a tube into each hole  .The cord on the end which is long enough  for you to hang  around your neck  so when renew the spend tube from the gun you take a tube from the holder and fix it  on the anvil with the ,loaded end of the tube in the gun touch hole this method of the tube holder saves carrying loose tubes in ones pocket. This is one of the many developments  of the gun
Feltwad

[Daryl]

The tube holder makes perfect sense, Feltwad.  Nice "tubes". This type of ignition would be much more direct and likely more sure than the later percussion caps.

Tube locks were predecessors to cap locks, I assume.

A detonating compound for tube lock tubes:
 
5 parts potassium chlorate
1 park sulfur
1 part charcoal

was used in tube loads, but is apparently a dangerous compound to use, handle or make.
I made some way back in the 70's for my home made tap-o-cap percussion caps when I could
not buy percussion caps in Smithers, B.C.  This compound worked much better than kid's toy
caps, recommended for these percussion caps.

This compound, like Pyrodex, due to the use of Chlorates in this case and Perchlorates in Pyrodex, makes for a VERY corrosive fouling from the compound.

[Feltwad]

The tube is placed  on a  anvil of which some are part of the barrel and some are part of the lock plate the image shows a tube placed on a anvil which is part of the barrel of a 6 bore fowling gun  this is held on the anvil by a metal clip
Feltwad

[acorn20]

I thought that if you showed a "tube" I might have an idea as to what you were talking about.  Little did I know, you did just that in your first picture.  I just didn't know what I was looking at.  Thank you for your last post.  I now see the tubes, the clip and I'm assuming they're detonated by the hammer similarly to a percussion cap.  Thanks again.

Dan Akers

[smylee grouch]

  T hank you very much Feltwad for the educational, to me post. Very interesting subject not often talked about. Wishing you a safe and happy new year. 

[L. Akers]

I don't know how to "link" but look at  "Augustin  tube lock military rifle" on you tube.

[Daryl]

I see 1842 date on that Augustin military rifle. I didn't know they were used that late & obviously much later than that.

[Feltwad]

The two main sports that favoured the tube lock  and they were carried on till the 1850,s was fowling and Live pigeon shooting  I have enclosed two images of these guns that were  built  in that period of 1850
Feltwad
6 bore fowling gun by Alfred Clayton


Jon Cox Live Pigeon Gun Build 1850

[Daryl]

Amazing, yet so typically English.
The barrel appears immense on the pigeon gun. What gauge pls?

[Feltwad]

Amazing, yet so typically English.
The barrel appears immense on the pigeon gun. What gauge pls?

The John Cox tube lock is a 6 bore  and specially built  with a pistol grip for end
Feltwad

 

[Daryl]

Noticed that forend. Nice checkering and carving, etc. Very intriguing.

[JBJ]

Manufacturing percussion tubes is covered in the following YouTube episode:


J.B.

[Bob Roller]

My maternal grandfather C.M.Taylor (1873-!972) always called the common nipple a "tube".
I don't think I have ever heard of the system shown here and brewing a home made impact
sensitive compound is not the best of ideas.
Bob Roller

[Daryl]

Forsyth also referred to nipples as tubes, in his 1860's book, The Sporting Rifle and it's Projectiles.
I think the "practice" of calling nipples - tubes, likely originated in England.

[jbigley]

The book Civil War Guns by William B. Edwards illustrates a "tube lock" on pp. 260 and 261. They were officially "Consol locks," and were imported from Austria. Some were converted to use standard musket caps, IIRC. Can't recall. I read about these many years ago, and just went to my copy of CWG for this information. I believe Bannerman bought some of them and called them "tube locks" in his catalog. --JB

[Bob Roller]

Jbigley,
You have resurrected old ghosts.Bill Edwards and Bannerman.In 1963 I went with some friends to the Ohio Gun Collectors Assn.Show in Columbus ,Ohio where I met William B.Edwards and Val Forgett.During the conversation I mentioned I lived in Huntington WVa and Mr.Edwards said he had to go thru Huntington to get to his in laws home in an adjacent county.He asked me to ride with him and I agreed and told my friends what I was going to do. When we left the auditorium I was asked if I had any problems about riding in an old car and I said "None at all"He has a beautiful 1933 Cadillac V12 sedan and asked me if I even had driven anything like it.I told him I owned a 1937 V12 and had driven a number of Model J Duesenbergs during my time of working on them.He asked me if I kne how to get out of Columbus and I told him "Yes: and he handed me the key and said,"Take us to Huntington" and I did.Mr.Edwards was for several years the editor of "GUNS"magazine and Val Forgett was the man who (I think)started Navy Arms.
  Bannerman&Son(s) purchased and resols all kinds of relics,weapons and was said to have equipped various militaries with surplus arms.I bought bits and pieces from Bannerman's as a teenager and they were always as described.How about a Snider action for less than $1 or Remingtom 50 caliber barrels for the same price in new cobdition.I made a double barreledrifle from them in the high school wood working shop.
Thanks for the stirring of long dormant memories.
Bob Roller

[T*O*F]

Mr.Edwards said he had to go thru Huntington to get to his in laws home

Val Forgett was the man who (I think)started Navy Arms.

Back in 2003, this old geezer in bib overalls comes strolling into my store and offered his hand.  He said, "Hi, I'm Bill Edwards.  I'm the guy who put Val Forgett in business."

He explained how he had used his contacts overseas to get Val started.  He looked at and identified some of the guns I had for sale.  We talked for about an hour about MLing.  He said he was on his way out west to deliver an antique motorcycle to a guy, and that when he traveled, he always took the back roads and made it a point to stop in to any BP stores he ran across.  I bought several of his books and he autographed one for me.  I still have it and one other still in its original shrink wrap.  Neat old guy!!!