Author Topic: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?  (Read 8252 times)

Offline MartyB

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W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« on: December 27, 2021, 05:31:56 AM »




















It seems to be .55 cal


No makers marks, or clues that I can find.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2021, 04:52:18 PM »
Everybody built those in the 70's, no telling who made it without a signature
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2021, 05:34:17 PM »
Everybody built those in the 70's, no telling who made it without a signature
Guilty as charged!
Andover, Vermont

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2021, 05:42:38 PM »
Not too bad and more than adequate for deer or black bear.The lock is typical of those usually seen on old American guns.
Bob Roller

Offline MartyB

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2021, 12:53:23 PM »
Thanks for the info guys.

I think I might get it refurbished and give it to my friend.


Offline heinz

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2021, 03:46:42 PM »
I am not sure I quite understand that breech.  Is it a patent breech, a tricked out drum and nipple, or something welded on the barrel?  I would look at that closely before dumping a lot of powder in it.
kind regards, heinz

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2021, 05:06:13 PM »
Thanks for the info guys.

I think I might get it refurbished and give it to my friend.
Nix the refurb.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Dphariss

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2021, 08:35:17 PM »
Somewhere, if the name was not removed, there is a Bill Large Hawken barrel signed to Daniel Wildfire Phariss IIRC. I got it after my return from the unfriendly side of the Pacific and it came Percussion instead of flint so I sold it to some one.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2021, 08:37:48 PM »
I would not mess with it. It looks OK and unless its been shot with highly corrosive “replica powder” or not cleaned properly it should be fine as is. I don’t think thats a Bill Large breech. But then I don’t know everything he did by a long shot.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2021, 08:40:32 PM »
But before passing it on or shooting it I would debreech and check the fit and the bore condition. If it has been shot with replica powder and has a fouling trap in the breech there could be “issues”.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2021, 09:16:31 PM »
Thanks for the info guys.

I think I might get it refurbished and give it to my friend.
Nix the refurb.

I agree, leave the character of that rifle as it is.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline MartyB

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2021, 04:51:01 AM »
I ran a few patches,  the bore was smooth, and relatively clean.


Here's some more photos.

I don't know about breaches.


I don't think the rear sight is original to gun.


It might have had a peep on the Tang.






























Offline heinz

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2021, 03:26:31 PM »
Marty, that is a patent breech.  The breech plug itself is formed to include the mount for the percussion nipple.
That is a nice 1960s 0r 1970s  semi-Hawken half stock.  It should be a fine shooter.  Clean it with a lot of cold water poured down the muzzle to flush out that breech.

Nice gun, enjoy it. It is a classic example of a high grade shooter from around 50 years ago.  I would not refurbish anything.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 03:31:38 PM by heinz »
kind regards, heinz

Offline MartyB

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2021, 06:19:40 PM »
Thank you.


I appreciate the help.

Everyone.

Offline JBJ

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2021, 04:36:38 PM »
Gotta love those narrow lands and wide groves!
J.B.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2021, 05:48:24 PM »
Gotta love those narrow lands and wide groves!
J.B.
I wonder if Bill Large was a pioneer of that design or if others were doing it at that time. GRRW barrels were very similar in rifling design and I’d be surprised if Bill Large’s barrels were not a major influence.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2021, 08:59:59 PM »
just for the record and anyone interested,Bill Large trained a man from GRRW in barrel making and helped them
get started in that line of work.There certainly is a similarity in the style.I think Bill sold one of his rifling machines
to them.
Bob Roller

Offline Daryl

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2021, 10:31:56 PM »
Decent crown and nice wide grooves and very narrow lands. Nice!!
Daryl

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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2021, 11:37:35 PM »
The breech is possibly one I made when helping Bill in that time frame.Dan Pharris,IF that had such a stencil done by either Bill or myself it would be very hard to get rid of and the amount of filing or grinding involved would be obvious.Bill was notorious for putting unwanted/uneeded names and comments on the barrels.The only way to hide it would be to reindex the breech plug to the flats on the barrel.
Bob Roller

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2022, 03:39:23 PM »
Gotta love those narrow lands and wide groves!
J.B.
I wonder if Bill Large was a pioneer of that design or if others were doing it at that time. GRRW barrels were very similar in rifling design and I’d be surprised if Bill Large’s barrels were not a major influence.

Bill Large did not start with wide groove,narrow land barrels until the early 1960's.I had a semi military Whitworth* with an
Alex Henry 7 groove barrel that would easily shoot tight groups at 100 yards and beyond if I did my part and Bill took an interest in that system and after shooting againstit wanted to see what it was. We unbreeched that barrel and he studied it for a long time and we pushed an oversize bullet thru it and that really showed us what was going on.He made tooling and used it in his 8 groove barrels and after a while he started getting reports of fine accuracy with patched round balls from a lot of people who shot in competition.That system also made loading a patched ball easier.I also tried to convince him to copy the 12 groove harrels of N.G.Whitmore whose rifles were declared as unfair competiion according to Major Ned Roberts.Whitmore's test of the presentaion rifle he made for General Grant said that using only the tang sight and the pin head front sight that every shot (10)
hit a target rhe size of a percussuon cap round tin at 110 yards/This was with a picket bullet that MUST be carefully loaded thru
a false muzzle.Bill had a Whitmore barrel that the rifling could still be seen but never got interested in that idea.
Bill did contribute a lot to the accuracy of the round ball rifle and I am glad to have had an involvement with him for 35 years.
Bob Roller
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A semi military match rifle was a high class target rifle with a long forearm and barrel bands like a common  musket/
The sights,locks and barrels were all target grade and so was the overall workmanship.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 03:48:10 PM by Bob Roller »

Offline bones92

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2022, 12:24:32 AM »
Very cool.  I would just clean the bore, make sure the nipple isn't corroded, and shoot it.  It's probably a very nice shooting rifle.
If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Offline MartyB

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2022, 05:27:30 AM »
If I ever get a day off, when it's nice out, I'm going to go shoot it.



Offline Carney Pace

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2022, 05:42:21 AM »
Bill Large sold GRRW a rifleing machine and a gun drill. Tonya Howard went back to Bill's shop and was taught how to run them. I went to work for the GRRW right after that and set up the production of the barrels. The grooves and lands were what Bill was using at that time and GRRW continued to use.

Carney

Offline duca

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2022, 07:28:26 AM »
Mr. Roller you sir are a walking time Capsule. Every time I read one of your posts can’t help but think of all the history in muzzleloading you have. Have you ever thought about writing a book? Surely would be a shame to lose all of that knowledge you have obtained through the years. I think it would be a very interesting and fun read.

Anthony
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God created the Longrifle...

Offline NW Flinter

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Re: W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2022, 10:24:42 PM »
  I agree on writing the book Bob. I'm sure it would be fun for you. You could make all the notes and find someone to put it all together for you. Be kind of like reliving the past.

Tom