W.M. Large - Anyone recognize this plains rifle?

[Eddie Southgate]

Another leave it like it is vote . Very cool old rifle .

[Bob Roller]

Mr. Roller you sir are a walking time Capsule. Every time I read one of your posts can’t help but think of all the history in muzzleloading you have. Have you ever thought about writing a book? Surely would be a shame to lose all of that knowledge you have obtained through the years. I think it would be a very interesting and fun read.

Anthony

For a bit over 3 years I have been helping a lovely young history teacher who is in NC and now works as a 7th grade Social Studies"teaher.
She is interested in our muzzle loading activities and was fascinated with the copies of The American Tradition I sent to her right after we met.We have adopted her as another adult grand daughter.She also suggested I write a book but I wouldn't know where to begin.
I met her on 8July 2018 and that began a friendship between an old man and a 28 year old young woman that has been continuous.
Bob Roller

[Clowdis]

Bob, you can write a book, just tell the truth and "write it all"! Well, maybe embellish it just a little bit.

[Bob Roller]

Too many of my memories were wiped out in 1975 by a bout with a severe influenza with EXTREMELY high fever..The hospital was going to send me home and out family doctor told the ER people NO WAY and I nearly died that night.I do remember hearing FDR's speech about Pearl Harbor but had no idea about what had happened.I remember hearing Hitler declaring war on America thru a translator,my uncle Karl Rudolf who served in Heavy Artillery in WW1 on the German side.He was married to my mother's older sister.He was part of a crew
of a big railroad gun.The turmoil in Germany after that first,unfinished war brought him and his sister to America and I really liked him.I was almost 5 years old then.
  Like many others I have had many experiences but nothing that can be of any real interest in a book.
Bob Roller

[Eddie Southgate]

Too many of my memories were wiped out in 1975 by a bout with a severe influenza with EXTREMELY high fever..The hospital was going to send me home and out family doctor told the ER people NO WAY and I nearly died that night.I do remember hearing FDR's speech about Pearl Harbor but had no idea about what had happened.I remember hearing Hitler declaring war on America thru a translator,my uncle Karl Rudolf who served in Heavy Artillery in WW1 on the German side.He was married to my mother's older sister.He was part of a crew
of a big railroad gun.The turmoil in Germany after that first,unfinished war brought him and his sister to America and I really liked him.I was almost 5 years old then.
  Like many others I have had many experiences but nothing that can be of any real interest in a book.
Bob Roller

  I have heard enough stories from my grandfather ( B.W. Southgate ) about trips to Friendship in the 40's through the early 60's to know that last statement is not correct . I can not tell you how many times I have wished I hade taped him and Charlie Haffner or uncle Royland and Flemming Williams telling stories about those trips not to mention the hunting trips . I wish I had a tape of uncle Royland telling about the visits he made to Hacker Martin . All of that stuff is pure gold to me and I would bet to a lot of other folks too. I'd buy any book you want to write cause I know it would be worth reading .

[Clowdis]

I grew up about 30 miles from Appomattox and never knew about the existence of Hacker Martin. How many times have I wished I could get a "do over" on that one.

[MartyB]

Found some .543 balls at totw..

Finally got a day off, with nice weather.






The holes in the blue are from the Large rifle.  7 shots

75gr 3f
.10 patch
50yds

I don't like the sights, my eyes are not what they used to be.

The holes in the red (5 shots) are from a Sharon Trade rifle I found at the same gun show.   I like those sights better.

[Daryl]

Interesting. In my most humble opinion, your patch is only 1/2 as thick as it should be.

[MartyB]

It was pretty tight loading in both guns. Thicker patching would probably require smaller roundballs.


Some practice and a more consistent sight picture is the first thing I'd work on.

[Daryl]

 The fellows here who shoot .54's all use .535" balls and  .021" to .022" denim patches &, the all load using the rifle's hickory rod.

[Bob Roller]

The "Hawken" I built used one of Bill's barrels and was 54 caliber. I used a 535 soft lead ball and surplus cleaning patches from military surplus and 90 grains of GOEX 3fg or Curtis&Harvey and it had primitive sights but then my eyes were 31 years old.I got really good groups at 100 yards with this rifle. finally sold it to Wes Kindig and have no idea where ir wnt after the sale.
Bob Roller

[jbigley]

Found some .543 balls at totw..

Finally got a day off, with nice weather.






The holes in the blue are from the Large rifle.  7 shots

75gr 3f
.10 patch
50yds

I don't like the sights, my eyes are not what they used to be.

The holes in the red (5 shots) are from a Sharon Trade rifle I found at the same gun show.   I like those sights better.

Hi Marty
It’s pretty obvious that sights *do* make a difference, since the same load was used in your Sharon trade rifle as your Large.
Btw, nice find on each. I like Sharon trade rifles. Missed an opportunity to buy one some years ago at Fort Bridger, and never have seen another one since. —JB

[Carney Pace]

GRRW sent Tanua Howard back to Bill's shop to learn how to build barrels.  They bought a gun drill machine and a rifling machine from Bill. I hired on just after they received the gun drill and rifling machine.
 Tanua  showed me what Bill Large had taught him and I developed the barrel production for GRRW.
Tanua was killed, along with Les Holt, when the GRRW powder plant blew up.

Carney

[Bob Roller]

I remember Tanua Howard when he was at Bill's shop and was not aware he died when that powder mill blew up.
How many years have flown by since then??
Bob Roller

[MartyB]

Well, I gave this rifle to my best friend for his birthday.


He was pretty tickled about it. He grew up with his dad dragging the family to Rendezvous, and his dad even built some rifles. So he was familiar with the Large barrels.


We might even have hunting pic to share in a few months.


Thank you guys for all the info.

[Hungry Horse]

 A Bill Large barreled full stocked Hawken’s, with a Bill Large Forsyth style wide groove narrow lands rifled barrel is the best shooting muzzleloader I ever shot. It had Roller triggers, and lock, and my friend bought it second hand. He built a real show piece half stock Hawken so he didn’t have to be seen with that ugly old full stock. The new gun was beautiful but it never shot like to old full stock. Probably because he got into an argument with Bill Large when he tried to buy the barrel, and eventually put a Bauska barrel on it.

Hungry Horse

[Dphariss]

Gotta love those narrow lands and wide groves!
J.B.

I wonder if Bill Large was a pioneer of that design or if others were doing it at that time. GRRW barrels were very similar in rifling design and I’d be surprised if Bill Large’s barrels were not a major influence.

The British made barrels back in the day that were similar and by the brass suppository era this style was the norm. So its been around a long time. Its far superior in a RB rifle that even equal lands and grooves since it loads easier.