Set triggers for pistols

[sdilts]

Are there any good set triggers out there (single or double) for pistols? L&R has one but it has a lot of slack in it when set. It's also a large trigger. The stock will end up being pretty beefy. That's not what I'm aiming for.

[Bob Roller]

Double set triggers for a pistol will probably have to be  custom made according to 1,The curve of the stock,2 the position of the sear at fully cocked.Single set triggers in the USA run the line from superb down to dangerous junk.I made some 40+ years ago for a German target shooter and got $100 each back then.The best thing to do is to take the sear out of the lock and see how sloppy the fit of sear screw is thru the hole in the sear and correct it of need be to a precise fit and then hone the full cock position of the tumbler.This will improve any lock no matter where ir comes from.
Bob Roller

[PAFlinter]

Are there any good set triggers out there (single or double) for pistols? L&R has one but it has a lot of slack in it when set. It's also a large trigger. The stock will end up being pretty beefy. That's not what I'm aiming for.

L C Rice make a Cain single set trigger that looks pretty nice.  I believe the web site is Buck Ridge Flintlocks

[Scota4570]

The single set triggers that I have bought and returned required the trigger be set in order to cock the hammer.  To my sensibilities that is dangerous.  One trigger was assembled from rough castings.  The trigger flopped side to side a good 3/16".   

The TC Patriot double set trigger has to be set with the front trigger.  Being backwards from all other triggers that poses an accidental discharge risk.  If you forget and go back to muscle memory you get an AD. 

There is no reason a properly made lock and trigger can not be made to give a smooth and crisp 2-3# pull.   That is plenty light enough.   

That is what the center fire guys shoot.  The best of them are amazing shots.  IN my experience a hair trigger is not the key to shooting well.  Good consistent trigger is part of the mix though. 

[PAFlinter]

The single set triggers that I have bought and returned required the trigger be set in order to cock the hammer.  To my sensibilities that is dangerous.  One trigger was assembled from rough castings.  The trigger flopped side to side a good 3/16".   

The TC Patriot double set trigger has to be set with the front trigger.  Being backwards from all other triggers that poses an accidental discharge risk.  If you forget and go back to muscle memory you get an AD. 

There is no reason a properly made lock and trigger can not be made to give a smooth and crisp 2-3# pull.   That is plenty light enough.   

That is what the center fire guys shoot.  The best of them are amazing shots.  IN my experience a hair trigger is not the key to shooting well.  Good consistent trigger is part of the mix though.

Most centerfire guys I've been around prefer a Jewel trigger that's measured in ounces, not pounds.......albeit they shoot benchrest competition.  All my southern gun triggers must be set first before pulling back the cock, never had a miss fire or accidental discharge.  just my .02 that you probably didn't want.

[Daryl]

Taylor has a single set trigger on his .60 cal. Hawken pistol. Maybe he'll chime in.

[Scota4570]

The best shooters, shoot 100% with those trigger pulls.  Rifle triggers are a different kettle of fish. 

Point is that a ML pistol with a trigger pull in the ounces is asking for trouble, IMHO.  I have seen three ADs this year on the ML pistol line at my club.  IT is not an imaginary safety issue.  Such a trigger is not needed by good shooters for accurate shooting. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I was faced with this same dilemma a few years ago when I was building a target pistol for my buddy Ron.  I had two to choose from in hand, the first, an L & R which I dismissed almost immediately (junk) and one from MBS.  With a little cutting and filing, it served well.  The following are some pictures to show it and the installation:












The trigger Daryl mentioned was one I made using a plate from an early L & R SS trigger, fabricating my own guts for it.  It can be set so lightly that tipping the pistol muzzle up will fire the pistol by the trigger's own weight...that's a little hairy.  I'll see if I can find pictures of it.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's the one I made for my Hawken pistol.






You can left click on the images twice to enlarge to full screen.

[PAFlinter]

Amazing work Taylor!

[Bob Roller]

Very good indeed.These are very similar to those I made for Otto Halfmann in Koln,Germany in 1980.
He called them "Kammerstecher" because of the sliding parts.I got $100 for each of them.Precise fitting
of the pins is the "secret" and this MUST be done with a reamer and drill rod.Drill and flood the reamer
with tapping oil so the hole will no be oversized.A dry ream is a guaranteed failure.
Bob Roller

[Scota4570]

That is inspirational Taylor.  Beautiful. 

Does it require setting to make the half and full cock functional? 

[sdilts]

Nice work Taylor! I'll look at the MBS trigger.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

No, it doesn't require setting the trigger before working the lock, on either of the pistols.  The mainspring is filed to provide a stop, so that the trigger floats and the bar drops down allowing the sear to engage the tumbler.  The mainspring of the triggers has a short heavy trust which fires the lock easily.  The locks have a detent/fly.

I just reread my answer to the question, and must add that on the Hawken trigger, you cannot fire the lock without setting the trigger.  But you don't have to set the trigger to cock the lock.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

My Hawken pistol has another little feature that greatly improves the lock's action and the sear/tumbler full cock notch engagement.  I drilled and tapped a 2 x 56 tpi hole in the plate adjacent the sear arm and installed a tapered screw through from the outside of the plate.  The taper engages the sear's arm along its bottom edge, and as you turn the screw in, the taper pushes up on the sear arm which moves the nose of the sear out of the full cock tumbler notch.  The adjustment is extremely fine and an incredibly light trigger pull can be achieved.

[alacran]

The best shooters, shoot 100% with those trigger pulls.  Rifle triggers are a different kettle of fish. 

Point is that a ML pistol with a trigger pull in the ounces is asking for trouble, IMHO.  I have seen three ADs this year on the ML pistol line at my club.  IT is not an imaginary safety issue.  Such a trigger is not needed by good shooters for accurate shooting.

I have two target pistols. Both are .45 cal., one flint one cap. Both of them have set triggers made by Larry Akers, an ALR member.
There is only 2and 1/2 ounces of difference in the weight of the pistols.
Both have the triggers braking at 4 ounces. They are not dangerous at all. I can place my finger on the trigger and hold without them going off. That is called trigger control.
Comparing CF bulls eye shooting to ML shooting is comparing apples and oranges. Olympic free pistol is a better comparison.

[sdilts]

My Hawken pistol has another little feature that greatly improves the lock's action and the sear/tumbler full cock notch engagement.  I drilled and tapped a 2 x 56 tpi hole in the plate adjacent the sear arm and installed a tapered screw through from the outside of the plate.  The taper engages the sear's arm along its bottom edge, and as you turn the screw in, the taper pushes up on the sear arm which moves the nose of the sear out of the full cock tumbler notch.  The adjustment is extremely fine and an incredibly light trigger pull can be achieved.

Would you happen to have a picture of that set up Taylor?

[Daryl]

I have two target pistols. Both are .45 cal., one flint one cap. Both of them have set triggers made by Larry Akers, an ALR member.
There is only 2and 1/2 ounces of difference in the weight of the pistols.
Both have the triggers braking at 4 ounces. They are not dangerous at all. I can place my finger on the trigger and hold without them going off. That is called trigger control.
Comparing CF bulls eye shooting to ML shooting is comparing apples and oranges. Olympic free pistol is a better comparison.

Exactly.  The best triggers on suppository & I assume, black powder BR rifles are 2 ounces.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

My Hawken pistol has another little feature that greatly improves the lock's action and the sear/tumbler full cock notch engagement.  I drilled and tapped a 2 x 56 tpi hole in the plate adjacent the sear arm and installed a tapered screw through from the outside of the plate.  The taper engages the sear's arm along its bottom edge, and as you turn the screw in, the taper pushes up on the sear arm which moves the nose of the sear out of the full cock tumbler notch.  The adjustment is extremely fine and an incredibly light trigger pull can be achieved.

Would you happen to have a picture of that set up Taylor?

No, but I will take one in due course, and present it here.

[Dphariss]

I have done at least 3 SS triggers on the same basic design as the one Taylor has shown.
A drawing of this appears in English Guns and Rifles by Nigel George.
As Taylor stated, if properly set up they do not bear on the sear when unset. No set trigger will will if its properly fit to the firearm.

The first is one I built for a Hawken Pistol.
The second is one that Don King made from the single trigger on one of a pair of Hawken pistols he had build years before then reacquired. When Don gifted them to me a did a similar conversion on the second pistol
The last is a high profile version that I did for my 50 cal swivel breech which required a higher profile trigger and needed the mainspring in the front with a hole through it for the tang screw. This trigger has 500-700 rounds through it I suppose. Maybe more than that I don't keep close track. It has never required even a readjustment. This design is by far the best SS trigger I know of.  Davis shows one of this design on their website. I have two pistols in the works, 62 Hawken percussion and I may order triggers rather than buy them. Getting lazy I guess.

[Tim Crosby]

 I am almost convinced that if you want set triggers on a pistol you should make the triggers and build the pistol around them. Rolf does an excellent job on a set in the link.

    Tim C.

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21961.msg209461#msg209461

[Dphariss]

I am almost convinced that if you want set triggers on a pistol you should make the triggers and build the pistol around them. Rolf does an excellent job on a set in the link.

    Tim C.

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21961.msg209461#msg209461

I decide what the pistol will be then make the parts fit.

[Bob Roller]

These triggers are much more labor intensive to make that a common double set trigger and that's why I got $100 each from the German customer.He is now long deceased and I met him at an International muzzle loader match in Quantico,Va,in 1980.
He was also a former combat pilot in the Luftwaffe's Me262 Jet Fighter program.
Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Back in the 80's, I was commissioned to build a target pistol for a friend.  So I purchased some components from TOW advertised as being of the LePage design, and they were very spendy.  The set trigger was over $300 usd but it was a work of art and functioned(S) perfectly.  It was of the same design as those submitted here in this thread.  Those sets that Dan has presented here are also of high quality.

Taylor

[Bob Roller]

One of my German customers told me these fine set triggers were made inthe French speaking section of Switzerland by watch makers when they weren't making a watch.
Bob Roller