Author Topic: Cross shaped patches  (Read 1102 times)

Offline JHeath

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Cross shaped patches
« on: December 29, 2021, 12:02:54 AM »
This cased English .32 came with a patch cutter and a pocket of cross-shape patches. Also two moulds.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/rifles---english-sporting/british-percussion-scoped-sporting-rifle-cased-w--gold-inlay.cfm?gun_id=101068837

Were cross shape patches common? Were these for ball? Does anyone use them today?








Offline EC121

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2021, 12:34:32 AM »
I think they were for bullets.

Offline Jeff Murray

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2021, 01:21:05 AM »
The rifle is a beauty.  Due to the small caliber I would agree they could have been used for a paper patched bullet load.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2021, 01:25:04 AM »
If the molds came with the gun originally, look at them.  They will tell you what the gun shoots.  I also would say it's a bullet gun.
Dave Kanger

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Offline JHeath

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2021, 03:21:17 AM »
If the molds came with the gun originally, look at them.  They will tell you what the gun shoots.  I also would say it's a bullet gun.

The listing doesn't give details about the moulds. Bullets make sense. I'm used to thinking of .32 muzzleloaders as being more like BBs than bullets.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2021, 06:54:24 AM »
That rifle looks similar to the one that Taylor posted photos of earlier this year. 

Offline snapper

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2021, 05:09:10 PM »
Nice looking piece!

I also would think bullet.

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Offline EC121

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2021, 07:47:43 PM »
Ned Robert's book shows a lot of bullet guns with that type of paper patch. 

Offline ScottH

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2021, 09:43:12 PM »
That is a beautifully made rifle, it is a shame that the stock is cracked at the wrist.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2021, 09:43:28 PM »
That rifle looks similar to the one that Taylor posted photos of earlier this year.

Bob, I have never seen that rifle before.  Perhaps you are remembering my Joseph Lang rifle, a few pics of which I post here.  And not a .32 but a .66 cal.











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Offline Daryl

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2021, 09:47:50 PM »
I thought Bob was referring to the little English Rook Rifle, Taylor - the one we lined to .36 cal. for round ball, but no, you are correct.
That cased William Moore rifle in indeed, a beauti, as-is that 16 bore, Taylor.
Daryl

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Online Bob Roller

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2021, 10:49:42 PM »
I think they were for bullets.
A top of the line rifle with a serious sight and other accessories.It says a bullet to me and one of around 170
grains like Pope Made.
Bob Roller

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2021, 01:05:38 AM »
Yes. The rook rifle that you relined to .36   

Offline Panzerschwein

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2021, 01:26:01 AM »
I’ll not understand why paper patches bulleted traditionals are never used today. Many seem to think in terms of roundball or nothing. Not so during the 19th.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2021, 05:03:55 AM »
Are there not bench-rest bullet matches in the States? 

I've never heard of any up here.
Daryl

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Offline lexington1

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2021, 05:59:37 AM »
Does anyone know where one might acquire a cross shaped patch cutter like this?

Online Bob Roller

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2021, 04:39:31 PM »
Ned Robert's book shows a lot of bullet guns with that type of paper patch.
Ned Roberts disavowed any knowledge of round ball guns and was raised on high quality caplocks and taught to shoot by an uncle who was a sniper in the Union Army.My personal preference IS for these Eastern rifles and "The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle" was and still is my favorite book along with Tom Rowe's book on muzzle loading Schuetzen Rifles.
IF I were going to "worship" ANY rifle and I will NOT it would be the N.G.Whitmore rifle given to General Grant in 1866.
I have seen only one ATTEMPT to make a representation of it and it had a $30 lock that ruined the whole idea,
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 09:09:52 PM by Bob Roller »

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2021, 07:15:09 PM »
I may have missed something but I thought the cross shaped patches were used for slug or bullet guns with false muzzles.
Mark

Offline lexington1

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2021, 08:35:05 PM »
They generally are.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Cross shaped patches
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2022, 06:31:01 AM »
I’ll not understand why paper patches bulleted traditionals are never used today. Many seem to think in terms of roundball or nothing. Not so during the 19th.
They are not really practical  for a hunting/general purpose rifle and people DO still use them. But for best results they need a lot more equipment than a RB does and offer no real gain for the hunter so long as the Rb is properly sized for the game hunted. If you  look to the photos in Ned Roberts “Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle” there are some slug gun photos. And these are still in use. Some used a 2 or 3 strip patch that was laid in grooves in the false muzzle and then the guide starter with the bullet in place was put over the muzzle and the bullet started. These cross or strip patches were designed to come off the bullet at the muzzle and the strips, from my reading, were supposed to just  meet at the edges of the strips as they fold around the bullet. Few of the serious target rifles using this type bullet weighed less than 20 pounds and many were much heavier than that.  Search “Horace Warner target rifle” there are images on the WWW. Bullets were often swaged from lead wire or from castings. There were SOME rifles made for hunting that used such things but they are not common in America.
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