Author Topic: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards  (Read 3983 times)

Offline bones92

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Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« on: January 03, 2022, 04:36:16 PM »
I did a search of archived posts here, but I didn't see anything that discusses the ballistics of patched round ball trajectories.    I do have the sight that has a ballistics calculator, but it implies that one knows the muzzle velocity (which I do not, and I don't have a way of measuring, really).

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/web_apps/rb_ballistics.html

I assumed 1100 fps, and a .440 round ball zeroed at 25 yards would have around a 15" drop at 100 yards.  This generally aligns with my experience.  I usually crank up the load on my .45 rifles to about 80 or 90 grains of 3Fg, whereas at 50 yards and lower it shoots quite well with 60 grains 3Fg.    At 100 yards I have to hold on the top center of the target sheet in order to loft it into the general area of the bullseye.  The trouble is that this makes it hard to center, given that the front sight obscures much of the target paper, and the surrounding backer board (dark cardboard) does not lend itself well to a clear sight-picture.

So I have been thinking about options for 100 yard ranges (our club matches for rifle all include shots at 25, 50 and 100 yards).  I believe we have to use original-style (fixed) sights on our rifles, and as you all know, most traditional style sights on flintlocks tend to be low-profile, with the front sight blade and rear sight being no more than half an inch above the barrel.

I've played around with changing my sight picture (for example, aligning the flat base of the front sight with the top of the rear sight notch) but thus far I haven't found anything that is consistent.

Anyway, I'm curious as to the tips and techniques that more experienced shooters use to compensate for longer range shooting.   
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Offline Badenpowell

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2022, 05:02:43 PM »
The hoary old Lyman Black Powder Handbook shows that a .445 round ball going 1100 and zeroed at 50 yards will drop 10 inches at 100.
My question would be -- assuming you have a rifle and not a handgun -- why would anyone load such a round ball to a muzzle velocity of 1100?
Loaded to 1800, which is more like it, that ball zeroed at 50 yards only drops 4 inches at 100.

Offline snapper

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2022, 05:18:35 PM »
I simply change my amount of powder.   I keep a book with various guns with load information in it.   I also write down point of aim at yardages as well.   Some guns have a picture of the sight picture I use for a particular yardage.   The front sight might be buried in the rear, or it might be very visible and proud.

I dont seem to have accuracy issues with changing the amount of powder like some people.

For my hawken .54 cal. I know my book shows how much powder and point of aim for shooting the sil. targets starting at 50 yards and ending at the bear targets at 200 yards.

Fleener

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Offline bones92

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2022, 05:24:48 PM »
Badenpowell,  in truth, I have no idea what muzzle velocity I'm getting.   I typically use .440 patched ball, and my two favorite .45 rifles are each about 42" barrel length.

What muzzle velocity (ballpark) am I looking at for 60 grain 3Fg?   Or perhaps  80 or 90 grain?  (I ask this assuming some of you may have similar barrels and have actually chronographed your shots).

 I found this page: http://www.mapleleafmarksmen.ca/wp-content/uploads/Ballistics.pdf

This implies 80 grain of 3Fg (zeroed at 50 yards) only drops about 4" at 100 yards, and has a muzzle velocity of 1975 fps.  Does this sound right?    It doesn't say anything about barrel length in the link, though.... 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 05:35:44 PM by bones92 »
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2022, 10:20:25 PM »
In a previous thread in this forum, I spoke of my method of sighting in my rifles.  However, I am intrigued by information recently published by Bob Woodfill in his new book on Hawken Rifles, in which he discusses how he has sighted in several of his reproduction Hawken rifles using only one powder measure for each.
To re-cap his thoughts and experience, he sights in his rifles with a hunting charge, as an example, a 50 cal rifle gets 120 gr. powder and a ball, for a point blank range of 125 yds.  For ranges to 50 yards, he simply halves the charge down to 60 gr. and finds that his rifles zero at 50 yards.  For 200 yards, he finds that the drop of the ball requires only a slight adjustment to be on again at 200.  Thus, for his .50 cal rifle, he needs only a 60 gr. charger which he doubles for 100 - 125 yards and beyond.  This system may not be as modern as we might imagine, for old rifles that have been found with their powder measures often have what we would consider to be a very light charge, easily doubled where the need arose.
I have paraphrased Bob's words but hopefully have captured the concept of the thing.  And I hope I have not committed a faux pas by referring to his published work. It is my recommendation that anyone interested in rifles of the muzzleloading period, not just Hawken rifles, purchase a copy of Bob' new book...it's a keeper!
Mods:  if I have mis-spoken, pls.  delete this post.
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2022, 10:41:47 PM »
The half charge powder measure is one I use for several of my rifles. I have a cut off tip of cow horn that is wallowed out to hold 55 grs. and two charges holds 110 grs. which is my 4 dram hunting load for two- 58s and my 62. The 55 gr. charge is real close at 25 and 50 for offhand trail targets

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2022, 11:59:52 PM »
I simply change my amount of powder.   I keep a book with various guns with load information in it.   I also write down point of aim at yardages as well.   Some guns have a picture of the sight picture I use for a particular yardage.   The front sight might be buried in the rear, or it might be very visible and proud.

I dont seem to have accuracy issues with changing the amount of powder like some people.

For my hawken .54 cal. I know my book shows how much powder and point of aim for shooting the sil. targets starting at 50 yards and ending at the bear targets at 200 yards.

Fleener

I'd love to peak at your book. How long is your barrel?

Offline Daryl

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2022, 12:34:49 AM »
Badenpowell,  in truth, I have no idea what muzzle velocity I'm getting.   I typically use .440 patched ball, and my two favorite .45 rifles are each about 42" barrel length.

What muzzle velocity (ballpark) am I looking at for 60 grain 3Fg?   Or perhaps  80 or 90 grain?  (I ask this assuming some of you may have similar barrels and have actually chronographed your shots).

 I found this page: http://www.mapleleafmarksmen.ca/wp-content/uploads/Ballistics.pdf

This implies 80 grain of 3Fg (zeroed at 50 yards) only drops about 4" at 100 yards, and has a muzzle velocity of 1975 fps.  Does this sound right?    It doesn't say anything about barrel length in the link, though....

I have worked up loads, using the chronograph in both .45 and .40's with 42" bls.

In testing, I also found out, the tightness of the load (patch thickness and ball size) makes about a much difference as powder charge.
With a slippery lube, like LHV or Mr. Flintlock's lube, the velocities were much higher than when a water based lube was used.  This, DPhar has noted as well, in that the water based lube
is not a slippery lube and creates more friction in the bore, than-do the slippery lubes. The powder charges necessary for each lube becomes important was well and in these small bores,
.50 and under, the difference in loads can be as much as 10 to 20gr., each giving identical accuracy, but much different velocities.
In my .45 bl. for instance, a charge of 65gr. of 3F GOEX was the accuracy load using a water based lube and produced a velocity of 1,740fps.
To get the same accuracy with a slippery lube, required 75gr. 3F, but that load generated, with the same .022" patch, 2,240fps.
In further testing, I found with the slippery lube, I got identical accuracy at 50yards using 85gr. 2F GOEX, producing the same velocity as 75gr. 3F, 2,240fps.
These velocities are higher than most any data I have seen, but then MUCH depends on the tightness of the load and if there is blow-by of the burning powder which reduces velocity.
Sam Fadala found this out when he experimented putting wasp nest between his powder and patched ball.  When he shot his patched ball & later looked at a slow motion photograph
of the "charge" coming out the muzzle, he saw a lot of flame preceding the patched ball and surmised, correctly that he was getting blow-by. He then tried putting the wasp nest between his patched ball and powder.  He found velocities 200fps higher if using this "barrier" to blow-by. He rightly surmised that the wasp nest prevented pressure blow-by- and indeed, claimed the patched ball did not seal and that a barrier was needed to cause a seal and he could prove it with his chronograph. This was not correct. I also had my own chronograph since 1975 & had done my own experiments along that same line, however I followed Ned Robert's writings of 1934, and developed loads that sealed the burning powder behind the ball, producing the higher speeds.
He then chronographed one of the Buckskin Report's members who actually used a tight ball and patch combination with and without the wasp nest. The results were identical and he wrote he did not understand why. I thought that was obvious - someone was blowing smoke about ball and patch combinations not sealing. ::)  His weren't without the barrier and of that, he was correct.

This is/was narrated just to show that MUCH depends on the load, ie: ball and patch combination.  If you load with a thin combo that shreds patches and you have to clean often, that is likely
due to a too thin patch. In that situation, your velocity, cleanliness of shooting & your accuracy, might benefit from you using a barrier between the powder and patched ball. Or you could just
use a tighter fitting ball and patch combination. That brings up the muzzle crown condition, which can make loading a tight combination without cutting the patch much easier.

4" is a common drop for a patched round ball, from a 50yard zero, to a 100yards point of impact. This is evident for a fairly wide variety of calibres, using "normal" powder charges.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 12:40:24 AM by Daryl »
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Offline bones92

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2022, 12:59:08 AM »
Daryl,

Thank you.  Your input is great.    I'm surprised (and a bit relieved) to know that a (circa) 4" drop at 100 using a 50-yd zero is common.  It gives me some ideas on what to do next.

One shortfall of working full time, with a family and trying to carve out time to stay fit, is that my time at the range is limited.  As in, REALLY limited.    The irony is that I live less than 30 minutes from our ML club.   

What I need to do is carve out time to go shoot when nobody is there, and using a bench rest, dial in my rifle(s) at 50 yards, then using a clean cardboard backer, shoot the same load at 100 yards and begin making adjustments.   This takes time and uninterrupted concentration.

 
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2022, 01:04:44 AM »
Indeed it does.
Best wishes.
Daryl

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Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2022, 05:20:43 AM »
Last time I took my .45 out I took the chronograph along...

42" barrel, .445 ball, .018 ticking patch lubed with mink tallow, 70 gr. Swiss 3f.

Took about 5 shots for velocities to settle in but they finally settled right around 2100 fps.

Mike


Offline bones92

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2022, 06:22:58 AM »
Mike, that’s impressive.  Thank you for sharing that.  I’m using .440 Hornady ball but not sure what my patches measure.  It’s not hard to push down the bore after starting with a couple good whacks.
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Offline Mike from OK

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2022, 07:07:33 AM »
Bones, I was pretty surprised myself. I didn't expect velocity to be anywhere in the neighborhood of 2000, much less exceed it. But I really didn't know what to expect.

I didn't post it to brag though, I just wanted folks with a similar setup to know what their velocity might be.

Mike

Offline JHeath

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2022, 07:33:21 AM »
Badenpowell,  in truth, I have no idea what muzzle velocity I'm getting.   I typically use .440 patched ball, and my two favorite .45 rifles are each about 42" barrel length.

What muzzle velocity (ballpark) am I looking at for 60 grain 3Fg?   Or perhaps  80 or 90 grain?  (I ask this assuming some of you may have similar barrels and have actually chronographed your shots).

 I found this page: http://www.mapleleafmarksmen.ca/wp-content/uploads/Ballistics.pdf

This implies 80 grain of 3Fg (zeroed at 50 yards) only drops about 4" at 100 yards, and has a muzzle velocity of 1975 fps.  Does this sound right?    It doesn't say anything about barrel length in the link, though....

I have worked up loads, using the chronograph in both .45 and .40's with 42" bls.

In testing, I also found out, the tightness of the load (patch thickness and ball size) makes about a much difference as powder charge.
With a slippery lube, like LHV or Mr. Flintlock's lube, the velocities were much higher than when a water based lube was used.  This, DPhar has noted as well, in that the water based lube
is not a slippery lube and creates more friction in the bore, than-do the slippery lubes. The powder charges necessary for each lube becomes important was well and in these small bores,
.50 and under, the difference in loads can be as much as 10 to 20gr., each giving identical accuracy, but much different velocities.
In my .45 bl. for instance, a charge of 65gr. of 3F GOEX was the accuracy load using a water based lube and produced a velocity of 1,740fps.
To get the same accuracy with a slippery lube, required 75gr. 3F, but that load generated, with the same .022" patch, 2,240fps.
In further testing, I found with the slippery lube, I got identical accuracy at 50yards using 85gr. 2F GOEX, producing the same velocity as 75gr. 3F, 2,240fps.
These velocities are higher than most any data I have seen, but then MUCH depends on the tightness of the load and if there is blow-by of the burning powder which reduces velocity.
Sam Fadala found this out when he experimented putting wasp nest between his powder and patched ball.  When he shot his patched ball & later looked at a slow motion photograph
of the "charge" coming out the muzzle, he saw a lot of flame preceding the patched ball and surmised, correctly that he was getting blow-by. He then tried putting the wasp nest between his patched ball and powder.  He found velocities 200fps higher if using this "barrier" to blow-by. He rightly surmised that the wasp nest prevented pressure blow-by- and indeed, claimed the patched ball did not seal and that a barrier was needed to cause a seal and he could prove it with his chronograph. This was not correct. I also had my own chronograph since 1975 & had done my own experiments along that same line, however I followed Ned Robert's writings of 1934, and developed loads that sealed the burning powder behind the ball, producing the higher speeds.
He then chronographed one of the Buckskin Report's members who actually used a tight ball and patch combination with and without the wasp nest. The results were identical and he wrote he did not understand why. I thought that was obvious - someone was blowing smoke about ball and patch combinations not sealing. ::)  His weren't without the barrier and of that, he was correct.

This is/was narrated just to show that MUCH depends on the load, ie: ball and patch combination.  If you load with a thin combo that shreds patches and you have to clean often, that is likely
due to a too thin patch. In that situation, your velocity, cleanliness of shooting & your accuracy, might benefit from you using a barrier between the powder and patched ball. Or you could just
use a tighter fitting ball and patch combination. That brings up the muzzle crown condition, which can make loading a tight combination without cutting the patch much easier.

4" is a common drop for a patched round ball, from a 50yard zero, to a 100yards point of impact. This is evident for a fairly wide variety of calibres, using "normal" powder charges.

If the patch tears, it must be because the fabric resists folding past the muzzle. Continuing to push the ball stretches the fabric, and the fabric fails in tension at the stress riser formed by the muzzle edge [correction, is cut by the rifling]

If the fabric fails in tension, that presumably means the fabric between the ball and the barrel wall stetches and becomes thinner before reaching failure.

If the above is correct, then fabric is probably becoming thinner even if it never tears. I.e. the fabric always becomes thinner, and the final dimension is determined partly by the amount of tension on the fabric during the loading process.

If all that is correct, then reducing fabric tension during loading would increase the likelihood of a good seal.

If that too is correct, then a slicker lube would reduce fabric tension and help preserve the fabric thickness during loading, reducing the liklihood of blow-by. Possibly coning would also.

I have made a great deal of speculation above. Also some educated guesswork. I have a trade background working with tension members.

I don't know the elasticity of pillow ticking. I don't have any available to test where I am right now. Otherwise I would stretch a strip of it using a comealong.

I'm sure you are correct that slick lube improves acceleration of the ball by reducing friction as the gas expands. But the seal I think is being established at the muzzle during loading. Possibly also the lube squeezed from the patch as the ball is pushed down the barrel accumulates around the groove where the outer diameter of the breech-side of the ball meets the rifling. If so, it might form a sort of compression-resistant r
ing.

I can't right now, but want to make a series of test-firings with different lubes. Using only a barrel fixed to a bracket, I would fire two or three fouling shots with a dry patch. Then remove the breech plug, and using a patch with the lube, ram a ball down the barrel, examining it especially at the barrel wall just before it clears the breech, to see how much fouling is being pushed ahead. Then examining the fouling on the patch after popping the ball out the breach.

The fouling pushed down the barrel by the patch during loading must be accumulating around the ball. Maybe the grease-and-fouling mush helps seal.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 07:36:28 AM by JHeath »

Offline alacran

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2022, 02:56:22 PM »
I have a chronograph. I have never used it to determine the velocity of my muzzleloaders. I really don't care what the actual velocity of my ML rifles is.
Mostly in ML competition you only shoot out to 100 yards. I
I have found that most rifles have a low load and a high load that shoots well. In general, a .45 will shoot well with about 50 grains of 3f, and this is adequate for ranges up to 50 yards. 70 grains of 3f in the .45 will work well out to 100 yards.
For hunting I always go with the upper load that works well with a given rifle. Also, I make sure that the upper load hits center at 100 yards. The upper load typically runs between 4 to 5 inches high at 50 yards.
So, I consider this my point-blank load.  Which means I don' t have to do a lot of thinking when game is at hand.
If I aim at a deer where I am supposed to, a 5-inch-high shot at fifty yards will certainly kill it.
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2022, 03:29:21 PM »
I have offered this idea up for grabs more than once, but I've not done it (yet), and am convinced it would work. Be just great if someone else would try it. 

Want to know your trajectory over 100yds? On a flat range, put out two, three, four, pieces of light paper. spaced at whatever intervals suit you.  Align those targets such that one shot punches them all. 

Measure carefully your bore height and the height of each hole in those papers. Plot on paper. There's your trajectory. Repeat as necessary/desired.  To eliminate the "drag" factor of punching those papers, remove all of them but one and remeasure.  Play with this just a little bit and a fellow will have a FAR MORE accurate idea of what his actual trajectories are over any range he chooses with any gun or load. There is no ballistics charge going to give you more accurate numbers and your velocity could also be estimated quite accurately from these findings-but there wouldn't be much point in that would there?

Have fun. Note I probably stole that idea from some gun writer of the 70's or 80's. I can't recall or give credit. I used to read 'em all.
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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2022, 04:45:07 PM »
I have offered this idea up for grabs more than once, but I've not done it (yet), and am convinced it would work. Be just great if someone else would try it. 

Want to know your trajectory over 100yds? On a flat range, put out two, three, four, pieces of light paper. spaced at whatever intervals suit you.  Align those targets such that one shot punches them all. 

Measure carefully your bore height and the height of each hole in those papers. Plot on paper. There's your trajectory. Repeat as necessary/desired.  To eliminate the "drag" factor of punching those papers, remove all of them but one and remeasure.  Play with this just a little bit and a fellow will have a FAR MORE accurate idea of what his actual trajectories are over any range he chooses with any gun or load. There is no ballistics charge going to give you more accurate numbers and your velocity could also be estimated quite accurately from these findings-but there wouldn't be much point in that would there?

Have fun. Note I probably stole that idea from some gun writer of the 70's or 80's. I can't recall or give credit. I used to read 'em all.

Wouldn't it be easier to just shoot at 25-50-75-100 yds and aim center bull. You'll have the trajectory.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2022, 05:24:18 PM »
Longer range shooting with any black powder gun means elongated projectiles.IF I were to hunt with a 45 caliber rifle it would be a 70 to 90 grain powder charge and a projectile with a minimum weight of 300 grains.A round ball loses velocity because it has no sectional density which is length plus diameter.It has diameter but nothing else.A 45 caliber long range bullet can easily be 1 and 3/8" long and it carreies well betond the 1000 yard tagets.
Bob Roller

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2022, 06:01:44 PM »
Wade's idea might work but I'm thinking it would be a bear to line up all those papers at the right height. So Dan's idea of just shooting at each range would be how I would do it and have done it.

Online Metequa

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2022, 06:08:11 PM »
Or level the barrel and align the targets using a laser, no sighting variations from shot to shot...

Offline bones92

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2022, 09:53:47 PM »
Longer range shooting with any black powder gun means elongated projectiles.IF I were to hunt with a 45 caliber rifle it would be a 70 to 90 grain powder charge and a projectile with a minimum weight of 300 grains.A round ball loses velocity because it has no sectional density which is length plus diameter. It has diameter but nothing else.A 45 caliber long range bullet can easily be 1 and 3/8" long and it carries well beyond the 1000 yard targets.
Bob Roller

Bob, thank you for bringing this up.  I didn't even think about using a different ball at 100 yards.   I rummaged through my collection of molds, as I thought I might have something that would work.  I always dig through the used molds for sale at  gun shops, and sure enough, I had not just one, but two.   I remember finding both of these at a shop in NC a few years back.

I'm leaning toward trying the one on the right.     Both are .445, and assuming my bores are .450", will the skirt expand enough to provide a good seal?  I would think so, given that these were surely made for a true .45 caliber bore.



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Offline Daryl

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2022, 10:34:05 PM »
I'm leaning toward trying the one on the right.     Both are .445, and assuming my bores are .450", will the skirt expand enough to provide a good seal?  I would think so, given that these were surely made for a true .45 caliber bore.

Will they seal & will they be accurate? Depends on the rifling twist and depth of the rifling, I would suggest.
GM .45's have a 60" ROTwist. Even 48" is a round ball twist, however early ctg. rifles were made with 48" to 56", perhaps 60",
but they shot VERT short bullets and at that, did not give very good accuracy.  A .45 cal. bullet weighed usually 200gr. to 260gr.
as well as not being hollow based. Since they were solid, they were very short. HP based bullets are MUCH longer.
If you MUST use an elongated bullet, the R.E.A.L. bullet in 200gr. by Lee would be the one to try.  An older, long time resident up
here n PG, used his .45 for mule deer, year after year, with patched round balls. He tested then tried the Lee bullet, the 200gr. R.E.A.L.
and found it to be of no advantage in killing deer. The round balls exited or were under the hide on the off side, just the same as the
 R.E.A.L. bullet. He saw no difference in killing power. They both killed deer.
My .45 GM barrel put the 200gr. REAL bullets into decent groups (slightly larger than round ball groups) at 50yards, using 75gr. 3F powder.
I used Lyman's Black Powder Gold lubricant and it worked well enough, I fired 10 shots with the bullets and went right back to shooting
my .445" balls and 10 ounce denim(.0225" at that time) without having to wipe the bore - loading with the rifle's 3/8" hickory rod.

As to "cutting" the patch at the muzzle - that is caused by too sharp a crown.  A smoothly radiused crown does not cut or stretch-to-cutting
a denim patch - of any "weight".  The patches picked up after firing are re-usable if  re-lubed.  I've done this "countless" times. I've done
this with .018/9" 8 ounce denim, .021" and .0225", 10 ounce denim as well as .030" 12 ounce denim and .034" 14 ounce denim, using balls
that measure .010" to .005" and in the .69, balls that run .015" to .008" smaller than the bore.
If the crown is smooth(ed), the ball and patch conform into the rifling, perfectly.  Back in the .70's I had a .448" bored .45 cal. Bauska barrel that
had .028" deep rifling.  I used a .457" ball and .022" denim as the patch. It shot fairly accurately.  Here's a 5 shot offhand group at 25 yards, with
that barrel and combination.(I was in my 20's and could see & shoot a mite better than today). I think it was a 50 4X. From a rest, it shot identically
at 50yards.



Daryl

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2022, 10:38:18 PM »


Oh, BTW - the skirts of either of those Minnies will blow out from the muzzle blast with any load that approaches a hunting load.
They are TOO thin skirted.
A solid (short) bullet like the REAL will give much better results - accuracy and killing power.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2022, 11:20:26 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline bones92

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2022, 11:00:42 PM »
Daryl, that's interesting... so then what are these molds meant for, if not for .45 caliber long rifles?  :D

By hunting loads, do you mean 100gr or more (3Fg)?   I would probably stick to 70 or 80 grains, if possible. 

Also, my main motivation would be for accurate shooting at 100 yards in competition.   For hunting, I doubt I would shoot beyond 60 yards, and I would use a PRB.    I'm just interested in bringing up my scores at the 100 yard distances, as our rifle aggregates all include 25, 50 and 100 yards (5 shots at each distance).
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 11:11:35 PM by bones92 »
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Offline Jeff Murray

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Re: Shooting traditional sights at 100 yards
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2022, 11:24:00 PM »
The old Lyman Black Powder Handbook circa 1975 has velocities, drop. mid range, bullet path and wind deflection data for many calibers.  It is a wealth of information that will give you a great starting point for load development.  I have no idea what edition may be currently available. If other factors are consistent (ball diameter, patch, lube etc.,) I have found that there seems to be a velocity sweet spot that produces the best results in a given barrel setup.  Changing powder and adjusting that load to produce the sweet spot velocity seems to deliver close to identical results.  Years ago when GOEX was hard to get, I found that Elephant produced velocities that equaled about 85% of an equal volume of GOEX.  By adjusting the volume of Elephant to produce the same velocity as the GOEX sweet spot load, the results were excellent with the same hold for fixed sights.  Adjusting the load 10 - 15 grains by volume up or down still gave good results.  The group size and standard deviation in velocity was just less consistent.  (the rifle was a 50 caliber shooting 2F)