Drop in rifle stock.

[eagle24]

I would like to hear some opinions on the amount of drop at the heel in a rifle stock.  I built my first rifle with 4" drop and shot it for the first time this weekend.  It is a Tennessee style rifle with a narrow butt stock.  The rifle shoulders comfortably for me, I think my neck is kind of long (I'm sort of tall and lanky).  It wasn't uncomfortable shooting from a standing position, but it was not much fun off a bench with 90 grains of 2F (.50 cal).  It seemed to drive the point of the heel into my shoulder/arm when I shot off sandbags.  I'm not certain that the drop was the culprit off the bench, but suspect that it had some to do with it.  Could have also been the deep crescent and rake in the butt plate.  I could certainly get by with less drop and I think have a rifle that still fits me pretty well.  Just curious what some of you have to say about how drop affects the way a rifle feels when shot.

[Acer Saccharum]

I had a piece of wood that I couldn't get the drop I wanted, so I used it anyway. I was concerned that I would have only 2 2/4 drop, and it would be too straight. However, I shoulder it with my elbow up in the air, like the British style, and it fits and points like a dream. Lifting my elbow brings my shoulder up. Seems natural, not awkward.

Large caliber, short barrel, straight stocked. Can't wait to shoot it.

I am always concerned with large drop and a Roman nose, that the stock will bruise my cheek. Same with a Lehigh, or a Bedford, that they would also bite the shooter when they barked.

[Lucky R A]

Greg,   There are more factors involved here than the drop at the heel.   First off what was your position at the bench.  A lot of bench rest or whatever people use for bench rest are much too low.  You can compensate for this by putting blocking under your back and front rest so you are sitting up straight and shouldering the run naturally like your would when shooting offhand.  A low bench rest will force you to scrunch down and the recoil will then drive the back extension of the butt plate directly into the top of your shoulder.   The deep crescent butt plate was designed to be shot off the shoulder and the upper part of your arm just off the shoulder.  I have no idea why fashion went away from the more comfortable earlier butt plates, but alas it did.   If you are long and lanky, a 4" drop may not be excessive, but being long and lanky you need to get your gun up higher on the bench, and if necessary move the butt plate out a bit onto your arm.   
Ron

[Dphariss]

I would like to hear some opinions on the amount of drop at the heel in a rifle stock.  I built my first rifle with 4" drop and shot it for the first time this weekend.  It is a Tennessee style rifle with a narrow butt stock.  The rifle shoulders comfortably for me, I think my neck is kind of long (I'm sort of tall and lanky).  It wasn't uncomfortable shooting from a standing position, but it was not much fun off a bench with 90 grains of 2F (.50 cal).  It seemed to drive the point of the heel into my shoulder/arm when I shot off sandbags.  I'm not certain that the drop was the culprit off the bench, but suspect that it had some to do with it.  Could have also been the deep crescent and rake in the butt plate.  I could certainly get by with less drop and I think have a rifle that still fits me pretty well.  Just curious what some of you have to say about how drop affects the way a rifle feels when shot.

You need to learn how to hold a crescent but gun to shoot it off the bench.
Shouldering one like a modern rifle is a mistake on the bench or otherwise.
The "American" rifle in our context at least was not bench rest rifle. They were designed for offhand shooting.

Dan

[Artificer]

Lucky R A,

Really enjoyed your post above.  I too have never understood why they went from comfortable and stable buttplates in the early days to buttplates with so much of a crescent shape.  I know about putting the rifle with a heavy crescent out on your arm, but that leads to poorer shooting.  Was it just a fad or fashion?  Did someone or enough people think it made the rifle look better? 

I really can't believe that most knowledgeable gunsmtihs thought it was a good idea.  Perhaps it was more to "giving the customer what he wanted rather than what he needed."

[Artificer]

.
The "American" rifle in our context at least was not bench rest rifle. They were designed for offhand shooting.

Dan

Couldn't agree more.  A rifle that is shot in competition in offhand, sitting and prone has to have a different stock than a strictly "off hand" rife.  It is not best for any of the three ways to shoot it, but the best trade off to use it in all three well enough.

The British made a real science out of modifying rifles and shotguns to fit the person for offhand shooting.  I'm really sorry that information is still so much of a "trade secret" as those who know it are dwindling each year through age and lesser demand for their services.

[eagle24]

You need to learn how to hold a crescent but gun to shoot it off the bench.
Shouldering one like a modern rifle is a mistake on the bench or otherwise.
The "American" rifle in our context at least was not bench rest rifle. They were designed for offhand shooting.

Dan

Dan,

I'm sure you are right.  I was not shouldering it like a modern rifle, but rather had the buttplate against/around my upper bicep.  The bench I was using is rather high, but I was limited to the chairs and stools at the range and the blocks and bags that I had with me.  Despite all my efforts, I couldn't get set up on the bench where I was completely upright from the waist up.  I felt as if I were leaning slightly into the rifle to get in a comfortable shooting position.  Probably I needed an even lower stool or chair.  Also, when I shot off the bench, I was not holding the rifle at all with my left hand.  I just let it rest on the bags and squeezed the trigger.  All I know is that with heavier loads it was pounding my upper bicep with the heel of the butt plate.  If you have some advice I'll listen.  If I knew what I was doing I wouldn't have asked.  I figured out that part out on my own.  I don't care for shooting off a bench except to get the sights set and to find the best load. 

Greg

[northmn]

The British made a real science out of modifying rifles and shotguns to fit the person for offhand shooting.  I'm really sorry that information is still so much of a "trade secret" as those who know it are dwindling each year through age and lesser demand for their services.
[/quote]

Reminds of a statement Jack O'Connor wrote about buying British shotguns.  "You haven't been conned until you have been conned by an Englishman"  He thought that they may overdo those things.  The crescent buttplate being shot off the arm may have had something to do with horse back use?  Who knows.  Consider that many of the rifles using them were also very heavy and absorbed more recoil.  We tend to make lighter weight rifles today.  Some of the older Tennessee rifles had very long heavy barrels.  Plains rifles might have barrels over 1 1/8 in at the breech.  The drop at the cheek is more important than total drop at the heel.  Some designs, like the Lancaster focused all lines on the cock and had more drop.  The English had a straighter stock with the comb parallel to the bore and used less drop.

DP