Kibler Longrifles going to the Next level!

[Mike Brooks]

Look here to see the woodsrunner rifle.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=49261.0

The Woodsrunner in this link may have broad appeal, the architecture looks almost like the blending of Fowler style buttstock with rifle features such as check rest and patchbox, with noticeably short length of pull?
     I would like to learn more, particularly what caliber it is chambered in or what Jim will offer it in?
    I would think this would serve well for younger shooters, and smaller builds, it may also appeal to those that need to hunt with heavy winter clothing or folks that spend a good portion of time walking/stalking game.
    It might make an interesting buck and ball gun? but that is a diffent style barrel and I have no idea if it would be appropriate?

I'd talk to kibler as far as the details of his new kit, nobody knows those answers but him.I have handled both the woods runner and the feather rifle. Neither one was noticibly short pulled and kibler will most likely make the kit what ever pull he desires depending on what he thinks will be best for sales.
It's  probably just me but I have always found the architecture on these guns unattractive. They look like the guy who built them was a little confused as to what the end result should be.

[Hunterdude]

It appears from his comment that Mr Kibler is NOT too concerned with "older, conservative, change resistant" people !!!   THAT is INTERESTING!!!!

I can tell you that I am Older AND Conservative.....yet I am happy to report I experienced ZERO difficulty in placing an order for a Kibler SMR, in fact Lorie, who took my phone order at Kiblers longrifles made it a Great experience, and has answered all my questions beautifully.
    It has been said that you can lead (some) old horse's to fresh water, but you can not keep him from try to pee in it. That is the activity that causes me to shake my head.

I have Never twisted Anyone's arm to purchase a Kibler, my posts express my own enthusiasm for getting to use the products for my personal enjoyment,......yet the grumpy horse with the propencity to pee eventually shows up.
   

[Spalding]

You also can take into account, that if you’re starting out with nothing, by the time you buy a quality stock blank, barrel, lock, triggers, and all the associated hardware, you will be at about the $800 mark today.
So you’re paying about $3-400 for Kiblers labor to bring his product to market. Quite a bargain today.

I understand those who have no interest in “store bought” rifles and prefer to roll their own. I’m getting close to starting my first plank build because of the challenge and it’s something I want to accomplish. But I got that itch by initially putting a Kibler together. And if Jim puts out a Hawken, he can take my money.

Bob

[Old Time Hunter]

It appears from his comment that Mr Kibler is NOT too concerned with "older, conservative, change resistant" people !!!   THAT is INTERESTING!!!!

I can tell you that I am Older AND Conservative.....yet I had No difficulty in placing an order for a Kibler SMR, in fact Lorie, who took my phone order at Kiblers longrifles made it a Great experience, and has answered all my questions beautifully.
    It has been said that you can lead (some) old horse's to fresh water, but you can not keep him from try to pee in it. That is the activity that causes me to shake my head.

I have Never twisted Anyone's arm to purchase a Kibler, my posts express my own enthusiasm for getting to use the products for my personal enjoyment,......yet the grumpy horse with the propencity to pee eventually shows up.
 

I am in my 95th winter and, I have NO plans of buying ANY more firearm of ANY kind! I have more than I can use now. I personally don`t care who builds what or why! I have seen a lot of "change" in my life some for the better , some for the worse! My only point in pointing out what Mr Kibler said was to highlight his comment on this segment of the market!  Having operated my medical practice for 60 years , I salute those who choose to operate their own business!  The only muzzleloading rifles that I own are originals that I bought in the 50s and 60s . I have one by a Tennessee maker named Jacob Young that I was going to have my daughter photograph to post here. It is a very beautiful rifle that is as finely made as any I have seen! I am rambling but, with the way things are now I am always put off by people making comments about "old , conservatives"  I think they are referring to me!

[rich pierce]

Cumberland Hunter, congrats! You’re raising the bar for an active, good old age. Keep it rolling!

All, let’s remembering we are a small community and are better off sticking together. Once upon a time, there were pioneers named Bill Large and Bud Siler. You may have your own list of “game-changers”.  I’m not sure if Golden Age Arms or Pecatonica or who were the first to offer pre-carved stocks inlet for barrels. But there have been and will be game-changers in every generation. Someday the game-changers of today will be the ones doing it the old way. Seems impossible now, but the things done now seemed impossible back then. Let’s enjoy the ride and not throw anybody who is contributing off or under the bus.

[Dave Marsh]

Well said Rich.  Was having those same thoughts.   

Dave

[Jim Kibler]

That's okay guys, I don't take any offense at all.  I think Rich has described this quite well.  I'm not against being conservative, traditional etc, but if people are too much this way, they can easily be left behind.  What's the quote about  "if find change difficult, try irrelevance".  This isn't directed at any individuals, but rather the approach to this culture we love as a whole.  There is great opportunity for organizations and business, but if your approach never changes, it's hard to realize these. 

On a personal level, I'm pretty conservative.  Just ask Katherine!  This is one area where she has influenced me a great deal.  Without her, I don't think we would have ever started this business.

In regards to the "Woodsrunner" project, I think it's going to have great, mass appeal.  I've tamed the stock architecture a tad, but still retains what I feel is wonderful, sleek stocking that handles and points incredibly well.  The rifle will weigh between 7.5 - 8 lbs depending on caliber.  It will be available in .45, .50 and .54 calibers.  The barrel will be 39.75" long.   The pull will be between 13 3/8" and 13 1/2".  The original pull was likely closer to 13 1/4".  I'll maybe do a short video introducing this rifle soon.

I'll look through this thread again soon to see if I've missed any questions, but better get back to work soon.

All the best,
Jim

[Frank]

That's okay guys, I don't take any offense at all.  I think Rich has described this quite well.  I'm not against being conservative, traditional etc, but if people are too much this way, they can easily be left behind.  What's the quote about  "if find change difficult, try irrelevance".  This isn't directed at any individuals, but rather the approach to this culture we love as a whole.  There is great opportunity for organizations and business, but if your approach never changes, it's hard to realize these. 

On a personal level, I'm pretty conservative.  Just ask Katherine!  This is one area where she has influenced me a great deal.  Without her, I don't think we would have ever started this business.

In regards to the "Woodsrunner" project, I think it's going to have great, mass appeal.  I've tamed the stock architecture a tad, but still retains what I feel is wonderful, sleek stocking that handles and points incredibly well.  The rifle will weigh between 7.5 - 8 lbs depending on caliber.  It will be available in .45, .50 and .54 calibers.  The barrel will be 39.75" long.   The pull will be between 13 3/8" and 13 1/2".  The original pull was likely closer to 13 1/4".  I'll maybe do a short video introducing this rifle soon.

I'll look through this thread again soon to see if I've missed any questions, but better get back to work soon.

All the best,
Jim

Based on this information, I will take one in .45 caliber. How soon can I place my order?

[jcmcclure]

It appears from his comment that Mr Kibler is NOT too concerned with "older, conservative, change resistant" people !!!   THAT is INTERESTING!!!!

I can tell you that I am Older AND Conservative.....yet I had No difficulty in placing an order for a Kibler SMR, in fact Lorie, who took my phone order at Kiblers longrifles made it a Great experience, and has answered all my questions beautifully.
    It has been said that you can lead (some) old horse's to fresh water, but you can not keep him from try to pee in it. That is the activity that causes me to shake my head.

I have Never twisted Anyone's arm to purchase a Kibler, my posts express my own enthusiasm for getting to use the products for my personal enjoyment,......yet the grumpy horse with the propencity to pee eventually shows up.
 

I am in my 95th winter and, I have NO plans of buying ANY more firearm of ANY kind! I have more than I can use now. I personally don`t care who builds what or why! I have seen a lot of "change" in my life some for the better , some for the worse! My only point in pointing out what Mr Kibler said was to highlight his comment on this segment of the market!  Having operated my medical practice for 60 years , I salute those who choose to operate their own business!  The only muzzleloading rifles that I own are originals that I bought in the 50s and 60s . I have one by a Tennessee maker named Jacob Young that I was going to have my daughter photograph to post here. It is a very beautiful rifle that is as finely made as any I have seen! I am rambling but, with the way things are now I am always put off by people making comments about "old , conservatives"  I think they are referring to me!

I would live to know more about your Jacob Young Rifle. I have sent you a message.

[J. Talbert]

It appears from his comment that Mr Kibler is NOT too concerned with "older, conservative, change resistant" people !!!   THAT is INTERESTING!!!!

I can tell you that I am Older AND Conservative.....yet I had No difficulty in placing an order for a Kibler SMR, in fact Lorie, who took my phone order at Kiblers longrifles made it a Great experience, and has answered all my questions beautifully.
    It has been said that you can lead (some) old horse's to fresh water, but you can not keep him from try to pee in it. That is the activity that causes me to shake my head.

I have Never twisted Anyone's arm to purchase a Kibler, my posts express my own enthusiasm for getting to use the products for my personal enjoyment,......yet the grumpy horse with the propencity to pee eventually shows up.
 

I am in my 95th winter and, I have NO plans of buying ANY more firearm of ANY kind! I have more than I can use now. I personally don`t care who builds what or why! I have seen a lot of "change" in my life some for the better , some for the worse! My only point in pointing out what Mr Kibler said was to highlight his comment on this segment of the market!  Having operated my medical practice for 60 years , I salute those who choose to operate their own business!  The only muzzleloading rifles that I own are originals that I bought in the 50s and 60s . I have one by a Tennessee maker named Jacob Young that I was going to have my daughter photograph to post here. It is a very beautiful rifle that is as finely made as any I have seen! I am rambling but, with the way things are now I am always put off by people making comments about "old , conservatives"  I think they are referring to me!

I would live to know more about your Jacob Young Rifle. I have sent you a message.

I’m sure many of us would love to see pictures of your Jacob Young rifle.

Many thanks,
Jeff

[L Meadows]

I guess Jim is ignoring my percussion SMR question, I guess if it was going to happen it would have by now.

[Jim Kibler]

I guess Jim is ignoring my percussion SMR question, I guess if it was going to happen it would have by now.

I’m sorry!  I didn’t mean to overlook your question.  Yes, percussion will be offered.  I’m not exactly sure when.  We have been doing a little experimenting with percussion on our Colonial rifle recently.

Thanks!
Jim

[EC121]

  A rifle that will fit.  I'll take a .54.

[L Meadows]

I guess Jim is ignoring my percussion SMR question, I guess if it was going to happen it would have by now.

I’m sorry!  I didn’t mean to overlook your question.  Yes, percussion will be offered.  I’m not exactly sure when.  We have been doing a little experimenting with percussion on our Colonial rifle recently.

Thanks!
Jim

Great news, that’s what I’ve been waiting for!

[jcmcclure]

  A rifle that will fit.  I'll take a .54.

This has been my previous issue with the kits also. My arms are too short lol.

[Hunterdude]

That's okay guys, I don't take any offense at all.  I think Rich has described this quite well.  I'm not against being conservative, traditional etc, but if people are too much this way, they can easily be left behind.  What's the quote about  "if find change difficult, try irrelevance".  This isn't directed at any individuals, but rather the approach to this culture we love as a whole.  There is great opportunity for organizations and business, but if your approach never changes, it's hard to realize these. 

On a personal level, I'm pretty conservative.  Just ask Katherine!  This is one area where she has influenced me a great deal.  Without her, I don't think we would have ever started this business.

In regards to the "Woodsrunner" project, I think it's going to have great, mass appeal.  I've tamed the stock architecture a tad, but still retains what I feel is wonderful, sleek stocking that handles and points incredibly well.  The rifle will weigh between 7.5 - 8 lbs depending on caliber.  It will be available in .45, .50 and .54 calibers.  The barrel will be 39.75" long.   The pull will be between 13 3/8" and 13 1/2".  The original pull was likely closer to 13 1/4".  I'll maybe do a short video introducing this rifle soon.

I'll look through this thread again soon to see if I've missed any questions, but better get back to work soon.

All the best,
Jim

Thank you for this post Jim. I would enjoy watching a "short Woodsrunner introduction video" Very much. I realise there may not be much to show on a 25% complete Fowler project, but ANY tidbits on the Fowler you could slip in the Woodsrunner Video would be Icing on the cake!

[tddeangelo]

I don't recall ever seeing it asked...so I will.

Any thoughts on a Lehigh down the pike? If we're dreaming, a late Berks (Haga style gun) would be cooler than cool, but Berks guns never get the love. lol

[JTR]

I have one by a Tennessee maker named Jacob Young that I was going to have my daughter photograph to post here. It is a very beautiful rifle,,,,,

I'd certainly enjoy seeing some pictures of your Jacob Young rifle!
John

[Mike Brooks]

I'll  bet....

[borderdogs]

In my opinion having a Kibler rifle option when starting out is a real asset. I have never built one but considered getting one when I started building rifles again a few years ago. One of the reason I didn't had nothing to do with what he produces or its quality rather what I was trying to get out of building a rifle. I wanted to build something that I had to learn skills and techniques to finish the project not just  put parts together. So what I was getting out of the process was a learning experience with the result of a finished rifle. I started building from parts sets but recently have been assembling components and stock blanks to build a specific rifle. I built my first rifle in the late 70's and didn't build another until 2019. If Kibler was an option back then I would have started with one.

I may yet try building one maybe take one of Brook's classes! I will be interested in seeing his version of  the Hawken looks like. I am in business too and although what I do has nothing to do with what Jim does, I know what it takes to run a small business. I commend Jim Kibler on what he offers and how he is expanding his offerings. We are lucky as a community of have people like him.
Rob

[Dphariss]

Dan, I agree with you and Dave - Jim's kits are attracting folks who otherwise wouldn't even think of building a longrifle, and find that custom makers are fairly high priced.

Kibler provides a "personalized" firearm that most any builder will be proud of.  AND - he leaves plenty of room for personalization, should a customer lean in that direction.  Heck, he even has "How To Do It" videos, detailing every step in the process. 

And the result is a great draw for MORE people to join our muzzle-stuffer crowd!

The type of muzzle loading firearms that we use (and make) is really a far cry from the 409 primer group.  No fiberglass, no "in-line" actions.  Just wood and steel and brass, as they have been made for over 250 years, and really had a big footprint in our history.

The modern muzzle loader was developed to make something available for those who have no idea as to the historical significance of the traditional hand made guns.I was talking recently to a police officer who has a modern type that apparently breaks open like a shotgun and he was complaining about some type of powder that plugged up the flash channel from the primer.I had and have no idea as to what this thing is but disavow any interest in it.The work of the Kibler's has been a major contribution to the survival of the traditional muzzle loading rifle and from what I have personally seen,they offer a major value for very little money.They chose THIS as a source of income and should be commended as well as supported in this unusual endeavour,
Bob Roller

The Montana legislature instituted a ML season (not the Fish, Wildlife and Parks) and the modern MLs are specifically banned. Now how much pressure will be put on lawmakers by the makers of these things is unknown but for now we have a pretty good set of rules to keep the arms used traditional.

[msquared]

Ok, as an intermittent lurker on this forum, I always learn interesting things.    However, I'll admit my ignorance and that I'm missing something large!.  Would someone give me a quick overview of the history of the Woodsrunner rifle? What is it's significance and origins?  Which time period and school?     I don't see anything in Kindig and  Google produced a few pics but not any real background.

I'm not a builder, but wish I were.  I'm very close to ordering that first Kibler kit and wondering about the new option of course.

Thanks

[2 shots]

  why another rifle before the fowler?? i need you fowler Jim. i am getting older not younger! i need it now 

[Fly Navy]

I like the idea of a Woodsrunner rifle. Something different and not common. If he makes it, I'll buy one.

[oldtravler61]

 After reading all this. One thing is for certain. Mr. Jim DOESN'T let the grass grow underneath his feet..!
 It is impressive that Jim continues to improve his product's.
  Now Jim if you could work on that scraped finish look ...
Oldtravler