Rifles for children

[WKevinD]

This is a recently finished childs rifle. Hoyt .45 smoothbore. Yardstick is laid for scale.
Kevin

[tecum-tha]

That is very close to what I plan for from a barrel, buttplate and potential trigger guard perspective, just for now in half stock to make barrels interchangable.
There will be no set triggers, no fancy wood and of course no sliding wooden patch box.
The idea is to make it also interchangeable from flintlock to percussion, so the lock choice is a percussion and flintlock with the same lockplate.
Most likely a lockplate without the fancy pointed end, but a mortise a 1/4" or 3/16" router bit can be used for.

[Mike Brooks]

Got something against fancy pointed ends? I know of few people that can route out a lock plate inlet. I guarantee you l can inlet a lock plate by hand quicker than you  ca do it with a router.  Have you built many guns?

[tecum-tha]

Do you think GRWW or other mfg in the 1970ies/1980 used a router based jig for the lock mortise because it was quicker to do it by hand? Do you think the imported gun kit mortises are created by hand,too?

[Mike Brooks]

Do you think GRWW or other mfg in the 1970ies/1980 used a router based jig for the lock mortise because it was quicker to do it by hand? Do you think the imported gun kit mortises are created by hand,too?

They don't use a hand held router.
You never answer my question about how many guns you have built. Your questions suggest little if any experience. We're 78 posts into this now.

[oldtravler61]

 I'm with Wayne on this. If Wayne can make a gun for $800
 an I have seen his work. A lot of people will be buying them. The real challenge is to get the parents involved in it.
 Also when I was involved in 4-H
 Most all parents worked together to get items for their children.
  If you ever seen Wayne's set up you would be impressed.
  But if their is a market for this.
 I would believe Jim Kibler would be all over this. JM2C   
  Wayne in my opinion is indeed a very good gun builder. Oldtravler

[tecum-tha]

Who said I would use a handheld router?
A gunstock duplicator for the stocks after removing what can be removed with a bandsaw. Then either a dedicated pantograph for tang, lock mortise and buttplate was used or it can be done on a stock duplicator as well using a smaller bit....depending on rate of production.

[Austin]

Tekum….you should listen quietly to Brooks and Stoner, they aint just talking it, they have lived it.

[Stoner creek]

The good Pantagraph machines will get you no more than 75% of good inlet on the lock mortise.  Trust me,  I've done several. I inlet a lock this week from a reliable supplier and it still took me an hour.  I can inlet a lock into a blank in 1 1/2 hours. CNC is the only process (outside of hand work) that will be 99% or better.  The only thing about thevery CNC process is that somone is going to need to inlet the first pattern perfectly.
 Listen to the folks who do this all the time.

[Bob Roller]

Many years go I made some small cap locks for someone but can't remember who it was.I think it was about 12 consecutive.
Mike Brooks says he made 4 out of 400 orders.Not much need for a "Kinderstutzer"here.
Bob Roller

[Mike Brooks]

Who said I would use a handheld router?
A gunstock duplicator for the stocks after removing what can be removed with a bandsaw. Then either a dedicated pantograph for tang, lock mortise and buttplate was used or it can be done on a stock duplicator as well using a smaller bit....depending on rate of production.

Do you have all of this machinery? And again I ask. Have you ever made a muzzle loading rifle?

[tecum-tha]

Yes, built about 10.
This machinery is readily available with min. modifications required....for little $$.

[oldtravler61]

  If you have this all figured out.
Why are you asking questions here ?  Just jump right in an start producing your guns...

[Mike Brooks]

  If you have this all figured out.
Why are you asking questions here ?  Just jump right in an start producing your guns...

That would be my recommendation as well.

[Stoner creek]

So after a ton of back and forth about this thread here’s what I have come up with. My total cost on this little gun is $545.00. Most all of the parts were bought either as package deals (a box full of stuff) or at yesterday’s prices. The labor is all on me (what’s time to a hog?). The barrel is a 13/16 x 35” 45 cal, Small Siler lock, Davis trigger. Trigger pull 12 3/4”. Good Sugar tree stock. Brooks guard.
 I made this piece for the young folks in our local 4-H shooting sports club to use because the rifles that they are using now are plastic stocked junk. This is a purely parts gun. What I like to call Shawhan School. It is one of three guns being built for the 4-H’ers. The other two are Chambers Little Fellas guns fitted with set trigger.
 I’m having trouble downloading pictures. Will try again tomorrow.

[Stoner creek]

 Here ya go.

[oldtravler61]

  Stoner that is one fine rifle..
Those kids are going to appreciate what you have made.
  Oldtravler

[AMartin]

Years ago I bought a straight tapered , 31" 45 caliber Orion barrel . 13/16" at the breech down to 3/4" at the muzzle .
Added a small Siler lock , single trigger , a stick of $35 curly maple from Ron Griffith .. a smaller triggerguard and one rammer pipe ..
It's the most coolest little schimmel you ever seen ..
It has killed a fair number of deer ... now my grandson is laying claim on it and is shooting it very well.

Here is a shot from the Artisans Show several years ago ...with Spencer longing to pick up the little rifle in front him .

[Steeltrap]

They don't use a hand held router.
You never answer my question about how many guns you have built. Your questions suggest little if any experience. We're 78 posts into this now.

IMHO...and it's just my opinion, you experienced guys are pretty tough on anyone who is new to the gun builders forum post. Those who have never built a gun from "near scratch" have a lot of questions and need time to think and consider the advice that is provided when they have a question. And, the newbie may not follow the advice to the letter, and they may screw up in doing so.

But that's learning.

And bolstering your own achievements or skills to a newbie doesn't help or provide them with any confidence to attempt a given project. Some newbies just take more time to assimilate the data than others.

If you are "tired" of reading a newbie's questions, then don't answer unless you desire to help.

But, that's just one guy's opinion.

[Mike Brooks]

They don't use a hand held router.
You never answer my question about how many guns you have built. Your questions suggest little if any experience. We're 78 posts into this now.

IMHO...and it's just my opinion, you experienced guys are pretty tough on anyone who is new to the gun builders forum post. Those who have never built a gun from "near scratch" have a lot of questions and need time to think and consider the advice that is provided when they have a question. And, the newbie may not follow the advice to the letter, and they may screw up in doing so.

But that's learning.

And bolstering your own achievements or skills to a newbie doesn't help or provide them with any confidence to attempt a given project. Some newbies just take more time to assimilate the data than others.

If you are "tired" of reading a newbie's questions, then don't answer unless you desire to help.

But, that's just one guy's opinion.

Great advice. I already use it more and more. Back in the day when I was learning all of this stuff  the internet  didn't  exist.  I just figured it out for myself. People like you don't realize what a resource  you have. You ask questions and expect somebody to dump  the answers in your lap. Very lazy way to learn
You guys ought to go out and by some books

[borderdogs]

I had a coach in high school who was very tough on his students you either loved him or hated him. He was a gunny sergeant in the USMC during WW2. A friend of mine got into a fight in the hall and that coach came out and stopped it. He told those two that were fighting to come to the wrestling room after school and said that all of us that were watch had to come too. He knew all our names. After school in the wrestling room he had those two guys put on boxing gloves and sparing helmets and have them go three rounds. After the three rounds he made them shake hands. My friend and the other guy became friends after. He was a great coach and a knew how to handle teenage boys that didn't know much.

Its much the same in building longguns I think those just starting out seem to forget what those that have done this for decades or for a vocation actually know in the way of experience. The fact that they are willing to share their knowledge even though are asked the same questions over and over is something we should appreciate. I learned a lot from that coach when I was a kid even though his deliver was sometimes hard. My suggestion is not be so sensitive when someone answers a question you ask maybe have some appreciation for what is being said rather than being upset by the delivery.
Rob

 

[Dennis Glazener]

I think this thread has about run it's useful course. Let's move on to something else.
Dennis